Historic Aerials

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ben Ruset, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Ben Ruset

    Ben Ruset Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,254
    Likes Received:
    959
    So when did Historic Aerials start sucking so much?

    It used to be that you could move the map and the watermarks would move, but now they're in fixed locations, one of which is right on top of what I want to see. :argh:
     
  2. pinelandpaddler

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    174
    It's been this way for awhile now. Your best bet is to zoom out and move around and then zoom in again.
     
  3. Ben Ruset

    Ben Ruset Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,254
    Likes Received:
    959
    Yeah, it used to be that you could zoom out, move, and zoom back and the watermarks would reposition but that doesn't seem to happen anymore.
     
  4. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    20,143
    Likes Received:
    2,476
    If you read some of the comments on the site people were asking to have less watermarks and the site mentioned that when they did that they had less sales. As you would expect it is money driven.
     
  5. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,875
    Likes Received:
    733
    Why would you expect anything different? This isn't like Google who is one of the worlds largest corporations and makes their money by snooping on you. How many people at NJPB have ever purchased anything from historic aerials? I did once, 6 or 7 years ago, when I was working on a map of Belco.

    I don't want to get into the whole issue of whether they should be able to copyright that imagery, just saying that it's a private business and they need to sell stuff. So, just looking at it from their point of view, why should they make it more useful to a bunch of people who never have and never will buy anything? The website is there to let you identify and designate the imagery you plan to purchase.
     
  6. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    20,143
    Likes Received:
    2,476
    I am not complaining about it being money driven. Just stating a fact.
     
  7. Ben Ruset

    Ben Ruset Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,254
    Likes Received:
    959
    Well, in the case of what I was looking for I couldn't see if the image was worth buying since the structure I was looking for was hidden under a big copyright symbol that didn't move when I panned the map around.

    Also their business model sucks. How many people actually bought imagery from them?
     
  8. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,249
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    They'd probably make more money by having force-fed ads on their site. I'd watch ads for 3 minutes if I could have 15 minutes of aerial viewing time. What I wonder is this: they must have bought the rights to show and resell the aerials...but are they also available to us by finding out the source and doing the same thing? Maybe even some of them were created with public funds and might be freely available.
     
    manumuskin likes this.
  9. 1Jerseydevil

    1Jerseydevil Explorer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    34
    I agree and who but the gov't could afford the cost? If that's so then public money was spent and the info should be available on some gov't website. But then jumping through the hoops and other obstacles when accessing gov't data bases.......a good example is our own NJ State map sources.
     
  10. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,875
    Likes Received:
    733
    It's very easy to access all the NJ map resources, but like anything else, you have to know how. I posted instructions awhile ago using the free open source Mobile Atlas Creator software which runs on Windows, MacOS and Linux. I also provided a free download of a configuration file I created myself. This will allow you to access all of the New Jersey imagery with a few mouse clicks. You can then export it for use in your favorite software such as Google Earth or Garmin Basecamp on your computer. And it is also compatible with a number of apps (some free, others are less than $10) that run on Android or iOS.

    Here's a link to my post. You can skip the part about installing my LIDAR map if you aren't interested. Just install Mobile Atlas Creator.

    https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...pines-beta-available.5103/page-16#post-142222

    Now download this little file and follow the instructions here:

    https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...pines-beta-available.5103/page-16#post-142223

    You'll now have access to the following NJGIN imagery

    classic USGS 24k topo maps
    historical topo maps
    1930 aerials
    1995 infrared aerials
    2002 infrared aerials
    2006 aerials
    2007 aerials (natural color and infrared)
    2010 aerials
    2012 aerials (natural color and infrared)
    2013 aerials
    2015 aerials (natural color and infrared)
     
    Jon Holcombe likes this.
  11. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,875
    Likes Received:
    733
    I don't know the source of all the Historical Aerials imagery, but it includes the free NJGIN imagery in my list above. From old threads here where the owner responded, I gather some of it is hardcopy photographs that they scanned and rectified themselves. That would involve considerable time and effort, not to mention web hosting cost, etc.

    If somebody here knows where to find these photographs and would like to scan and deliver them to me, I could turn them into maps.

    Regarding the imagery created with public funds, for the stuff I'm aware of such as NJGIN and USGS HRO, the metadata says there are no usage restrictions. So you can download it, put it on a website and sell it if you want. In fact, Garmin and others are doing exactly that. And isn't that the point? It was created with public funds so anyone can use it for any purpose.

    If you know a way for Historical Aerials to make more money, I'll bet the owner would love to hear it. :)
     
  12. 1Jerseydevil

    1Jerseydevil Explorer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    34
    Boyd
    Thanks for posting the links. You nailed it "It's very easy to access all the NJ map resources, but like anything else, you have to know how." well I'm computer dumb. I originally tried when you first posted the info and somewhere along the line I got lost and wasn't able to bring up the maps. When I have time and a good disposition I'll give it a try again. Thanks for all your work, I do have your Lidar of the Pines saved.
     
    Boyd likes this.
  13. 46er

    46er Piney

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    6,842
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    I stopped using it a long time ago, never cared for what you got without a subscription. IMO, the current subscription of $39/month is a bit over the top for what they offer, and even then you get a 'less intrusive' watermark, whatever that means.
     
  14. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,875
    Likes Received:
    733
    Have not even looked at their rates for a long time. When I purchased imagery before there was a flat fee for the best quality of whatever was showing on the map. The subscription is a good idea but that is really expensive.

    I have spent considerable time on my new HD Topo and it has watermarks but not a lot, and they are hand-placed not to cover up important features. They only show at the maximum zoom level.

    boydmap.jpg
     
    Menantico likes this.
  15. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
    Site Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Messages:
    20,143
    Likes Received:
    2,476
    That isn't an intrusion.
     
    46er likes this.
  16. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,875
    Likes Received:
    733
    FYI - if anyone tries this and finds it doesn't work.... I think the NJGIN servers are down at the moment. You will notice that the NJGIN imagery on NJPB maps isn;t working either. They often seem to be unavailable on the weekends, I suspect that is when they work on their networks and servers. Hopefully they will be back online Monday.
     
    manumuskin likes this.
  17. Boyd

    Boyd Super Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,875
    Likes Received:
    733
    Back up and running again today. :)