How do we stop the damage?

Jason Howell

Explorer
Nov 23, 2009
126
50
Every single unblocked ORV site that I monitor has fresh tracks going through it- this includes Jemima Mt which has a gate, but the gate alone has proven insufficient. We had 10 volunteers go and watch locations last Monday and we made 5 calls to the DEP Hotline to report 12 illegal drivers/riders during the course of 3 and 1/2 hours, but no police ever responded. So I am asking for your ideas, how do we stop this?


IMG_2725 by Jason Howell, on Flickr



IMG_2727 by Jason Howell, on Flickr

IMG_2718 by Jason Howell, on Flickr
 

SuperChooch

Explorer
Aug 26, 2011
321
319
44
Jason, let's not speak rhetorically. Please drop pins for each of the 3 locations above so we can talk about potential solutions.

Regarding Jemima, I'm talking to the state about extending the gate. It is true that at least one person went around once, however, the traffic is probably down 99% from what it was. In regards to the mission of actually protecting the hill, I'm not sure that qualifies as "insufficient" by any definition of the word.
 

Tony

Scout
Jul 30, 2015
43
20
69
Folsom
Jason you are making this stuff up. You called the park police and they did not show up are you insane.
I can guarantee you that if I called them they would show up. So excuse me if I don't believe your fairy tale.
Also I ride back there during the week and if you see on jeep go by in an hour that a lot. So go tell your
Stories else where.
 

Jason Howell

Explorer
Nov 23, 2009
126
50
Jason you are making this stuff up. You called the park police and they did not show up are you insane.
I can guarantee you that if I called them they would show up. So excuse me if I don't believe your fairy tale.
Also I ride back there during the week and if you see on jeep go by in an hour that a lot. So go tell your
Stories else where.

They didn't show up once in 3 and a half hours. Not only did they not patrol the areas where we were monitoring during that time, but they didn't show when we gave them GPS and had violators on the scene. This isn't the Park Police's fault. This is the DEP's fault for refusing to provide them with enforceable routes. Over-stretched and under gunned, the Park Police are being overrun by the ORVs.


https://www.youtube.com/embed/PtcrxX1bzO8
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,838
2,125
Coastal NJ
So I am asking for your ideas, how do we stop this?

Just more evidence that closing roads does nothing but create 'trophies' for those that ignore regulations. If you and the group you represent want to be helpful in stopping this, direct your efforts toward more funding for the Park Police. Perhaps instead of always being critical, post a list of those that receive a summons and conviction on the web site of the group you represent, as the CO's used to do for their law enforcement activities.

http://www.njcoa.com/highlights/highlights.html
 
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Jason Howell

Explorer
Nov 23, 2009
126
50
Just more evidence that closing roads does nothing but create 'trophies' for those that ignore regulations. If you and the group you represent want to be helpful in stopping this, direct your efforts toward more funding for the Park Police. Perhaps instead of always being critical, post a list of those that receive a summons and conviction on the web site of the group you represent, as the CO's used to do for their law enforcement activities.

http://www.njcoa.com/highlights/highlights.html


DEP officials have already said there will be no more Park Police for Wharton or anywhere else during this administration. Personally, I think we would have more success waiting for Godot than waiting for Christie to increase the budget on anything.

I like the idea of the posting of a crime blotter, but DEP redacts the names of individuals who have been issued summons in their incident reports that are publicly available(through opra). If you can get those names, I would gladly start a website for it.
 

Tony

Scout
Jul 30, 2015
43
20
69
Folsom
How come when I call the park police they show up. I called them a few times in the last two years and they have
Responded in a timely fashion. So I don't believe your story Jason I think you just making it up to further your
Agenda. It guys like you that give the tree huggers a bad name. Just yesterday I saw the park police three times.
Apple pie hill, stokes road and Hawkins bridge. I called that patrolling the area.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,838
2,125
Coastal NJ
DEP officials have already said there will be no more Park Police for Wharton or anywhere else during this administration. Personally, I think we would have more success waiting for Godot than waiting for Christie to increase the budget on anything.

I like the idea of the posting of a crime blotter, but DEP redacts the names of individuals who have been issued summons in their incident reports that are publicly available(through opra). If you can get those names, I would gladly start a website for it.

Puhh-leeeeese. Don't kick the can. If your organization wanted to, they would find a way to apply pressure to fund an increase. Why not donate some of your not-for-profit funds? Have some fund raisers? Start a movement. Your org is very good at finding funding. Try harder. Posting the names of those issued a summons is useless. Posting what fine they have paid or if their vehicle was confiscated sends a message; get some of your volunteers to check local courts. If you want something badly enough you will find a way. I wouldn't want to take the satisfaction from you by doing it for you; besides, you'd have to pay. A lot. But I guess it is just easier to just take pictures and complain.
 
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Jason Howell

Explorer
Nov 23, 2009
126
50
Puhh-leeeeese. Don't kick the can. If your organization wanted to, they would find a way to apply pressure to fund an increase. Why not donate some of your not-for-profit funds? Have some fund raisers? Start a movement. Your org is very good at finding funding. Try harder. Posting the names of those issued a summons is useless. Posting what fine they have paid or if their vehicle was confiscated sends a message; get some of your volunteers to check local courts. If you want something badly enough you will find a way. I wouldn't want to take the satisfaction from you by doing it for you; besides, you'd have to pay. A lot. But I guess it is just easier to just take pictures and complain.

It's the DEP that has kicked the can, they couldn't handle the heat and have punted to the next administration. I have watched this problem grow and worsen during my life and these mudders are robbing future generations of some of the most beautiful places of the Pines. How horrible is it that these generations may come to what once was a savannah and now is just a mud pit for "wheelers"?

I think we have an understandably different point of view on these things. As part of the millennial generation, I am coming to some of these places for the first time and finding them destroyed. It may be that you have seen this damage accumulate slowly over a long period of time and it's effect has lessed as time has passed.
 
Last edited:

92 Blazer Jeff

Explorer
Aug 24, 2015
259
100
GLASSBORO,NJ
How come when I call the park police they show up. I called them a few times in the last two years and they have
Responded in a timely fashion. So I don't believe your story Jason I think you just making it up to further your
Agenda. It guys like you that give the tree huggers a bad name. Just yesterday I saw the park police three times.
Apple pie hill, stokes road and Hawkins bridge. I called that patrolling the area.
I have also seen a lot more park police out in the woods of Wharton in the last 6 months.
 
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46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,838
2,125
Coastal NJ
I think we have an understandably different point of view on these things.

Perhaps, but different points of view are a good thing. It tends to keep things honest. But when someone reads data such as that below, it does cause some wonder.

Number of employees in 2013: 9
This organization: 9
Other organizations performing similar types of work: 9

Employees paid over $100,000 in 2013: 11.1%
This organization: 11.1%
Other organizations performing similar types of work: 0.0%

So one person is being paid over $100K? Who might that be?

http://www.nonprofitfacts.com/NJ/Pi...nce-Inc.html#statementOfRevenue#ixzz4Jxq1mMEW
 

Gibby

Piney
Apr 4, 2011
1,597
384
Trenton
This is the new angle. The PPA is trying to point fingers at the state, blaming them for the problems with offroading. The administration is incompetent and won't increase funding for enforcement is their cry. What is the goal Jason? First it was the offroad groups political influence and now it is the state's lack of funding. The barrens won't be federalized so stop surrendering your liberties so blindly.
 
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Jason Howell

Explorer
Nov 23, 2009
126
50
This is further proof that Jason and the PPA will not be happy until all motorized access to Wharton is cut off.

I have to address this because it's just not the case. I drive on the forest roads quite often and I would not be happy if there was not a reasonable amount of motorized routes available. It would make many things more difficult and would not be a conservation benefit in my opinion. However, what we have now is a largely unmanaged, unpatrolled, unplanned, network of trails with very little consideration of the impacts. After the uproar, the DEP has become so gunshy that they would not close a road even if a bald eagle nested right on top of it. If I could have my way and my way alone, it would be very little that would be restricted from motorized use, but many sites would be physically barricaded from the ATVs and mudders.
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,414
1,311
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Eatontown, NJ
www.benruset.com
I have to address this because it's just not the case. I drive on the forest roads quite often and I would not be happy if there was not a reasonable amount of motorized routes available. It would make many things more difficult and would not be a conservation benefit in my opinion. However, what we have now is a largely unmanaged, unpatrolled, unplanned, network of trails with very little consideration of the impacts. After the uproar, the DEP has become so gunshy that they would not close a road even if a bald eagle nested right on top of it. If I could have my way and my way alone, it would be very little that would be restricted from motorized use, but many sites would be physically barricaded from the ATVs and mudders.

One person went around the barricade at Jemima Mount and you're ready to call it a failure. The original MAP called for closing 50% of Wharton without increased enforcement. It's logical to assume that when people who don't respect the law flout those closures the next response will be to close the other 50%.

The DEP has agreed to work with OTNJ with regards to closing off areas, so your assertion that the DEP won't close off areas is absurd. With the PPA/NJCF trying to go around the DEP and straight to the Pinelands Commission as well as the continuous onslaught of incredibly biased articles that are showing up, I get the feeling that you guys care less about actually protecting the Pines and more about being the gatekeepers to the Pines.

Has the PPA done ANY outreach with any non-environmental groups since the MAP failed?
 

mudboy dave

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
949
18
39
atco
opentrailsnj.org
I'll tell you right now...... I've been there and done won't do it anymore...... blocked trails are going to do more than create more damage.... A map to the extent that the PPA and NJCF are pushing for are going to cause more damage than what's there now...... I'll put my money where my mouth is.
 
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