Hunters

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,653
8,265
We had to come home early today because everywhere we went there were hunters with guns, and I forgot my orange. So be careful. I am going out tomorrow and will have to start doing so for a while.

Everyone was walking down the road looking into the woods. I wonder what they expected to find along the road??


Guy
 

ebsi2001

Explorer
May 2, 2006
301
0
southern NJ
We had to come home early today because everywhere we went there were hunters with guns, and I forgot my orange. So be careful. I am going out tomorrow and will have to start doing so for a while.

'Tis better to stay at home and read some maps, do library research or visit a museum, than to venture into the woods this time of the year ("Orange"/Red Duds, or no), and it will only get worse, until deer season (and "holiday time") is over. It is a proven fact that anything that moves is in great danger this time of the year. That's why the deer migrate to the "bombing range.":D

Everyone was walking down the road looking into the woods. I wonder what they expected to find along the road??


Guy

Depends on the road... (the kind of road, and where it is located)

If its paved, or a four--lane, divided highway, that's one thing: Many "hunters" have no clue how or where to hunt. Souped--up on the "sauce," they'll shoot at anything that moves, just so they can get back to a warm cabin as quickly as possible and relate their "deeds" over a game of poker (and a bottle of "hooch")...

However, if it was a dirt/gravel track, and if they had dogs with them, they may have been waiting for the dogs to chase a rabbit or squirrel out of the woods and across the road --- and, then,:bang:!!

When I was a lad, upland game season came into effect around Thanksgiving. We would go out and hunt to stock the freezer for the winter. Some of us would play hookey during part of deer season for the same reason. I didn't: Pop wouldn't allow it!

So, Guy, keep safe, do something else until Mid-January or so...

ebsi
 

ebsi2001

Explorer
May 2, 2006
301
0
southern NJ
That won't be happening. I will just go on Sundays.

Guy

That should keep you safe from those that can read, do read, and who follow the letter of the law...

Of course, you could also honk a klaxon, beat a drum, or blow a fog horn --- or something (not advisable) :D

ebsi
 

LongIslandPiney

Explorer
Jan 11, 2006
484
0
Hunting season here on LI has several "stages". Nov 1 - Dec 31 they can hunt with bow & arrow, January is Deer firearms season. Long Island is heavily regulated when it comes to hunting, however, I've seen hunters with guns at all times of the year.
I am not bothered by them, you just have to wear bright colors. However, during January firearms season, the DEC preserves are closed to hikers on weekdays.
Let me just ask a question though, what is a Muzzleloader and how does it differ from other guns?
Anyway at this time of the year I just stick to the wide paths and woods roads. Hunting accidents, at least here on LI, are quite rare. I'd worry more about being shot in many neighborhoods here on LI, than in the woods.
Besides, the colder weather is the best time for the woods. Summer is absolutely miserable, between the bugs (pine flies, ticks), heat, poison ivy, and those inchworms.
Thats prob why you rarely see any hunting in the hot weather. Besides the flies will be on your deer and make for a miserable experience removing it.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,653
8,265
Hunters don't bother me either, it's just the fact that I prefer to look around without people around. And anyone without orange like we were today is taking a risk.

A Muzzleloader is a gun where you have to put in the powder and the ball and pack it with a rod. This requires some time and patience giving the deer a much better chance of getting away. A challenge to the hunter which is interesting and admirable. I have shot them and they are fun to use.

Guy
 

ebsi2001

Explorer
May 2, 2006
301
0
southern NJ
<SNIP> Let me just ask a question though, what is a Muzzleloader and how does it differ from other guns?
<SNIP>.

A "muzzleloader" is a modern--day term for a musket. Like Guy said, you pour in a measured amount of black powder into the barrel, take a small patch of cloth (or not), which in Revolutionary War times was greased, wrap a cast leaden ball in it, and ram it down the barrel with a ramrod. The ramrods were either made of wood or metal. The hammer is then cocked, and a small "percussion cap" placed on the nipple. When the trigger is pulled, the hammer strikes the percussion cap, which then sends a spark into the barrel where it ignites the black powder. The gasses formed by the rapidly burning powder force the ball out of the barrel at high speed. The purpose of the greased cloth is to help prevent "blowby" of the gasses, while, at the same time, lubricating the barrel.

At first, muskets had smooth bores, however, once it was learned that "rifling" (a spiraling series of lands and grooves) a barrel provided a more accurate shot, and once the rifling process was perfected for mass production, muskets were rifled --- well, some of them: The rifles. Those that were not rifled, were the "shotguns."

Shotguns, unlike rifles, are meant to fire more than one pellet. Sometimes called "scatterguns," they are designed to project the pellets in a so--called "pattern." The pattern produced by a shotgun can be modified (usually "tightened") by employing a so--called "choke" on the barrel. Sawed--off shotguns don't have chokes, and their pattern is so large that, depending on the size of the pellets fired, they are usually lethal only at short distances. Saw off the stock of a sawed--off shotgun, and you have created a so--called "hog leg." A good example of a hog leg can be seen in the western film with John Wayne where Dean Martin plays the part of a drunken sheriff --- Rio Bravo (?)

There is no advantage to rifling a shotgun: accuracy is not increased. Sometimes a single ball will be fired from a shotgun. If I remember correctly, that is illegal in New Jersey, or it may have been 45 years ago when I bought my last license. Sometimes the shot are joined together with a waxed string or thread. It was illegal to do that back then, and I assume that it is illegal to so today...

Today's muzzleloaders are much heavier than modern shotguns or rifles. Their barrel is usually octagonal or hexagonal in cross section. Whereas a hunter firing a modern day shotgun or rifle can fire--off many rounds, in quick succession, in a minute, a skilled muzzleloader can only fire--off a few rounds per minute. Most hunters, today, do not possess the trained, routine skills needed to reload a muzzleloader several times a minute.

General von Steuben trained the Continental Army in the skills of "modern warfare" of that era. One of those skills was learning to (musket) fire on the enemy in volleys. Once a line of musketteers would fire on the enemy, it would drop to its knees and start to reload. The line immediately behind it would fire, then drop to its knees, etc. The cycle would reset, when the first line of musketteers had reloaded. It was imperative that the unit work as a well--oiled "machine"...

I am fortunate to possess both a genuine, Civil War era musket, complete with ramrod and "three--cornered" bayonet, as well as a modern day muzzleloader (about 15 years old). However, considering my disability, I shall probably never use them. The musket may be too dangerous to fire anyway...

ebsi
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,957
3,114
Pestletown, N.J.
This Monday and Tuesday 11-27 and 11-28 are the first two days of muzzleloader.
It comes back in during the second week of December and stays in until Jan. 6 2007.
The permit shotgun seasons go through to the end of January in most zones.
I have a replica caplock (TC Renegade) that I started with many years ago with iron sights. Both of my sons shoot caplock TC's.
I recently bought a TC Encore .50 cal. inline and scoped it.
The inline can take up to 150 grains of black powder and is devastating out to 150 yards.
I use a 295 grain copper jacketed hollow point with 100 grains of FF.
I enjoy the challenge of having only one shot and the extended range of the muzzleloader.
Scott
 

wis bang

Explorer
Jun 24, 2004
235
2
East Windsor
I have My father's T/C Renegade 54Cal flintlock. When PA allowed blackpowder the only allowed patched round lead balls and flint lock ignition. The PA flintlockj season starts Dec 26 thru Jan 14th or so...

They do have a 'modern' muzzleloader week in October, anterless only. Any Muzzleloader would be legal for the 'regular' rifle seasons too and are allowed in the populated 'shotgun only' areas outside of Phila & Pittsburg,

I shoot a 430 grain lead conical Maxi-hunter bullet, based on the civil war mini-ball, over 120 grains FFg black powder for approx. 1290 FPS at the muzzle.

Unlike modern firearms, this heavy lead bullet drops quickly after 50 - 75 yards so it safer in a shotgun area than something like a 7mm magnum launching a 180 grain bullet around 3000 FPS.

When I started using this flintlock I target shot @ a dead tree. The projectiles did not go through the trunk ['round 8" diameter] The Following fall I tried My father's .270 on the same tree and it penetrated the tree trunk...
 

Windsor

Scout
Aug 11, 2005
66
0
49
Somerdale
I'm actually building a muzzle loader now. It's a Lancaster County flint lock in the style of Isaac Haines in .54cal, around 1770's. Tonight I finished inletting most of the breech and will bend the tang and inlet it tomorrow. Even in pieces I just stare at its beauty and can't wait to see what it will be once it's finished. If anyone is interested, I will post some pics of the progress.

Musket is a loosely used term. Muskets are typically smooth bore barrels. A rifle has "rifling" cut into the bore of the barrel to spin the patched round ball and as such stabilize it in flight. If you're shooting round ball, a 1:66 twist is optimal for your .45 - .54 caliber weapon. Anything larger than that and you will see twists of 1:70. Modern day inline (gasp) rifles can see something as fast as 1:28, which is suitable for firing conicals and sabots.

:guinness:
 

foofoo

Explorer
Sep 14, 2003
183
0
A "muzzleloader" is a modern--day term for a musket. Like Guy said, you pour in a measured amount of black powder into the barrel, take a small patch of cloth (or not), which in Revolutionary War times was greased, wrap a cast leaden ball in it, and ram it down the barrel with a ramrod. The ramrods were either made of wood or metal. The hammer is then cocked, and a small "percussion cap" placed on the nipple. When the trigger is pulled, the hammer strikes the percussion cap, which then sends a spark into the barrel where it ignites the black powder. The gasses formed by the rapidly burning powder force the ball out of the barrel at high speed. The purpose of the greased cloth is to help prevent "blowby" of the gasses, while, at the same time, lubricating the barrel.

At first, muskets had smooth bores, however, once it was learned that "rifling" (a spiralinng series of lands and grooves) a barrel provided a more accurate shot, and once the rifling process was perfected for mass production, muskets were rifled --- well, some of them: The rifles. Those that were not rifled, were the "shotguns."

Shotguns, unlike rifles, are meant to fire more than one pellet. Sometimes called "scatterguns," they are designed to project the pellets in a so--called "pattern." The pattern produced by a shotgun can be modified (usually "tightened") by employing a so--called "choke" on the barrel. Sawed--off shotguns don't have chokes, and their pattern is so large that, depending on the size of the pellets fired, they are usually lethal only at short distances. Saw off the stock of a sawed--off shotgun, and you have created a so--called "hog leg." A good example of a hog leg can be seen in the western film with John Wayne where Dean Martin plays the part of a drunken sheriff --- Rio Bravo (?)

There is no advantage to rifling a shotgun: accuracy is not increased. Sometimes a single ball will be fired from a shotgun. If I remember correctly, that is illegal in New Jersey, or it may have been 45 years ago when I bought my last license. Sometimes the shot are joined together with a waxed string or thread. It was illegal to do that back then, and I assume that it is illegal to so today...

Today's muzzleloaders are much heavier than modern shotguns or rifles. Their barrel is usually octagonal or hexagonal in cross section. Whereas a hunter firing a modern day shotgun or rifle can fire--off many rounds, in quick succession, in a minute, a skilled muzzleloader can only fire--off a few rounds per minute. Most hunters, today, do not possess the trained, routine skills needed to reload a muzzleloader several times a minute.

General von Steuben trained the Continental Army in the skills of "modern warfare" of that era. One of those skills was learning to (musket) fire on the enemy in volleys. Once a line of musketteers would fire on the enemy, it would drop to its knees and start to reload. The line immediately behind it would fire, then drop to its knees, etc. The cycle would reset, when the first line of musketteers had reloaded. It was imperative that the unit work as a well--oiled "machine"...

I am fortunate to possess both a genuine, Civil War era musket, complete with ramrod and "three--cornered" bayonet, as well as a modern day muzzleloader (about 15 years old). However, considering my disability, I shall probably never use them. The musket may be too dangerous to fire anyway...

ebsi
- you have some bad info. a rifled barrel shotgun can shoot out to 250 yards with modern slugs or sabot bullets. same goes for modern in line muzzleloaders. they have a fast twist rate like 1 in 28 and can shoot sabot bullets near the same distance. both are legal in the state . if youve seen alot of hunters lining up on a road it is probably a gun club planning to walk through a piece of woods. its called a deer drive. its not that they are lost. there are standers and drivers. the gun clubs have a big tradition hunting this way. i prefer the quiet of a stand but you have to understand the pines are so thick in areas that this is the prefered way to hunt them. during the 6 day firearm season i try not to be around the pines. i do much prefer archery and muzzleloader but to each there own.
 

Oriental

Explorer
Apr 21, 2005
253
133
My son got his first deer last Tuesday morning during the 6 day firearm season. It was a small 3 point buck and I couldn't be more proud of him. Really good father-son stuff. I'm still smiling.
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,957
3,114
Pestletown, N.J.
Congratulations to your son and you for keeping the tradition alive.
I remember each and every one of my sons' deer like it was yesterday and they are now 19 and 20.
They have both taken nicer deer than me in their short hunting careers. All local pines deer too.
They both started at the age of ten as I did and I am still trying to top my older son's monster 8 that he took at the age of 13.
Scott
 
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