Jersey Devil Alternate Origin

Jason Bladzinski

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Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
I have never actually heard about any Lenape connection to the JD.

The vast majority of the "sightings" in phenom week were footprints, and the descriptions of what the beast supposedly looked like differed wildly. I would consider none of those "sightings" to be credible.
I'm a skeptic believe me when I tell you that, but there were thousands of sightings. Schools and places of work closed, and there had to exist a relitive similarly in discription of the creature, less we would not have the image of the Jersey devil we describe and portray in various media as we do even today. The Lenape called the pine barrens the land of the dragon, look it up you might find the info on it directly.
 

Jason Bladzinski

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Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
I can neither confirm nor deny this claim, but I've not been able to trace the claim to any reputable source. What would a "dragon" be to the Lenape Indians, anyway?
It may be more like a demon or something serpentine. I don't know the exact words used. I will try to find the info and post it when I do.
 

Jason Bladzinski

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Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
Not only are they not credible, ALL sightings of JD are not credible.
I think so too. I have spent much time deep in the forests, and I have not had one encounter with the JD. I have heard the theory that people were seeing a sand hill crane, aand their imaginations just got the better of them.
 

Jason Bladzinski

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Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
This is the often repeated claim I was speaking of. Unfortunately, my Algonquian leaves much to be desired. Jerseyman, can you speak to the veracity of this claim?
Ah, I mistook what you said. I read it that you couldn't find any claim to an Indian name for the pines, and not that you have heard this claim but cannot validate it. I will try to find a true way to test this translation and post it if I am able.
 
This is the often repeated claim I was speaking of. Unfortunately, my Algonquian leaves much to be desired. Jerseyman, can you speak to the veracity of this claim?

Folks:

Translation of indigenous languages like the Lenape's spoken Algonquin dialects is fraught with problems ranging from the "ear" conditioning of the early transplanted European hearer concerning the pronunciation to the auditory processing of both the hearer and the speaker regarding questions and responses concerning word or phrase meanings. These issues are made even more problematic because the Lenape did not possess a written language. If someone can provide me with a Contact Period contemporaneous source for the Lenape word "Popuessing" and its stated meaning, I would be appreciative. It could be a dictionary or other type of text or the word may appear as a label on a historic map. I have accessed all of the native language dictionaries and place name works in my collection and have failed to find anything even close to Popuessing relative to location and meaning except Poquessing Creek, a tributary of the Delaware River, which reportedly means "place of mice." One dictionary in my collection has the letters "pop" in a series of native words and they all relate to partridges. So, if you provide me with an original source for the word or toponym in question that I can further dissect, I would be grateful.

Best regards,
Jerseyman
 

Jason Bladzinski

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Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
Folks:

Translation of indigenous languages like the Lenape's spoken Algonquin dialects is fraught with problems ranging from the "ear" conditioning of the early transplanted European hearer concerning the pronunciation to the auditory processing of both the hearer and the speaker regarding questions and responses concerning word or phrase meanings. These issues are made even more problematic because the Lenape did not possess a written language. If someone can provide me with a Contact Period contemporaneous source for the Lenape word "Popuessing" and its stated meaning, I would be appreciative. It could be a dictionary or other type of text or the word may appear as a label on a historic map. I have accessed all of the native language dictionaries and place name works in my collection and have failed to find anything even close to Popuessing relative to location and meaning except Poquessing Creek, a tributary of the Delaware River, which reportedly means "place of mice." One dictionary in my collection has the letters "pop" in a series of native words and they all relate to partridges. So, if you provide me with an original source for the word or toponym in question that I can further dissect, I would be grateful.

Best regards,
Jerseyman
I am humbled by this level of knowledge you have. I have no sources to validate this claim. I would like to know where this claim originated, then perhaps it would be easier to evaluate. Anyone know the source of the claim?
 

Ben Ruset

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I am humbled by this level of knowledge you have. I have no sources to validate this claim. I would like to know where this claim originated, then perhaps it would be easier to evaluate. Anyone know the source of the claim?

Not to sound cynical but I'd wager it originated from the people who were/are making a film about the Jersey Devil called "Popuessing." I can't find a historical or scholarly source for the word.
 

Bill Sprouse

New Member
Dec 17, 2014
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Mexico City
jerseydevilbook.com
Folks:

Translation of indigenous languages like the Lenape's spoken Algonquin dialects is fraught with problems ranging from the "ear" conditioning of the early transplanted European hearer concerning the pronunciation to the auditory processing of both the hearer and the speaker regarding questions and responses concerning word or phrase meanings. These issues are made even more problematic because the Lenape did not possess a written language. If someone can provide me with a Contact Period contemporaneous source for the Lenape word "Popuessing" and its stated meaning, I would be appreciative. It could be a dictionary or other type of text or the word may appear as a label on a historic map. I have accessed all of the native language dictionaries and place name works in my collection and have failed to find anything even close to Popuessing relative to location and meaning except Poquessing Creek, a tributary of the Delaware River, which reportedly means "place of mice." One dictionary in my collection has the letters "pop" in a series of native words and they all relate to partridges. So, if you provide me with an original source for the word or toponym in question that I can further dissect, I would be grateful.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

Maybe someone could update wikipedia with this.

Folks:

Translation of indigenous languages like the Lenape's spoken Algonquin dialects is fraught with problems ranging from the "ear" conditioning of the early transplanted European hearer concerning the pronunciation to the auditory processing of both the hearer and the speaker regarding questions and responses concerning word or phrase meanings. These issues are made even more problematic because the Lenape did not possess a written language. If someone can provide me with a Contact Period contemporaneous source for the Lenape word "Popuessing" and its stated meaning, I would be appreciative. It could be a dictionary or other type of text or the word may appear as a label on a historic map. I have accessed all of the native language dictionaries and place name works in my collection and have failed to find anything even close to Popuessing relative to location and meaning except Poquessing Creek, a tributary of the Delaware River, which reportedly means "place of mice." One dictionary in my collection has the letters "pop" in a series of native words and they all relate to partridges. So, if you provide me with an original source for the word or toponym in question that I can further dissect, I would be grateful.

Best regards,
Jerseyman
 

Jason Bladzinski

Explorer
Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
Not to sound cynical but I'd wager it originated from the people who were/are making a film about the Jersey Devil called "Popuessing." I can't find a historical or scholarly source for the word.
Yeah, it's not like Wikipedia is known for the accuracy of its sources. Some people want to believe so badly in the paranormal that they will create lies they then tell themselves to believe are true. I guess I understand the need to believe in fanciful things like that, but there is enough amazing things about existence to keep me fascinated without having to believe in that stuff.
 

Bill Sprouse

New Member
Dec 17, 2014
23
8
46
Mexico City
jerseydevilbook.com
Yeah, it's not like Wikipedia is known for the accuracy of its sources. Some people want to believe so badly in the paranormal that they will create lies they then tell themselves to believe are true. I guess I understand the need to believe in fanciful things like that, but there is enough amazing things about existence to keep me fascinated without having to believe in that stuff.

I agree. But the Popuessing claim appears basically at the top of the wikipedia article on the JD, with no real sourcing, so I'm glad someone (i.e. Jerseyman) has taken the time to show it probably has no basis. It just has the feel of one of those Real Ultimate Power factoids. Even if the Lenape did use that name, it's one of those things that becomes significant only if you're inclined to think there are miniature dragons roaming about New Jersey.

I don't know where it originated. Maybe the movie people. It also appears in Loren Coleman's book Mysterious America (2007).
 
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Jason Bladzinski

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Feb 15, 2014
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Avenel
I agree. But the Popuessing claim appears basically at the top of the wikipedia article on the JD, with no real sourcing, so I'm glad someone (i.e. Jerseyman) has taken the time to show it probably has no basis. It just has the feel of one of those Real Ultimate Power factoids. Even if the Lenape did use that name, it's one of those things that becomes significant only if you're inclined to think there are miniature dragons roaming about New Jersey.

I don't know where it originated. Maybe the movie people. It also appears in Loren Coleman's book Mysterious America (2007).
What is that "Mysterious America " book like? Is it any good?
 
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