More Eco Terrorism?

[Broke Jeep Joe]

Dave- couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly what I'm afraid of with a set trail system. I do recall those trucks from back then as well. As you mentioned the out of towners that become tree huggers, the other type are the ones I'm talking about. They show up from other states or even this one and tear $hit up. I saw a post on a Jeep site of a rubicon doing donuts in Atsion Station parking lot. I will guarantee most of us can take any trail out there and not leave a mark on it, most of us that care anyway!

 

[mudboy dave]

Oh and as far as the clean ups go, I'm not talking 1 or 2 cleanups in particular. I have seen some in the passed where it has seemed that they were aimed towards brownie points more than cleaning up. The Jeep cleanup in the Fall has done wonders in spots where there was heavy dumping and also the Forked River Mountain cleanup has seemed to do quite a bit.

 

[mudboy dave]

Dave- couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly what I'm afraid of with a set trail system. I do recall those trucks from back then as well. As you mentioned the out of towners that become tree huggers, the other type are the ones I'm talking about. They show up from other states or even this one and tear $hit up. I saw a post on a Jeep site of a rubicon doing donuts in Atsion Station parking lot. I will guarantee most of us can take any trail out there and not leave a mark on it, most of us that care anyway!

That video should be turned into the rangers just as the spikes that you found, theyre both assholes. I just wish everyone would go back home.

 

[iitpPres]

I agree, a set of trail systems would probably inhibit our ability to utilize the unimproved roads most of us "wheel" on now. With the onslaught of the internet, more and more people are finding out about these places. I've seen the area in the Ranger Station torn up. I couldn't believe it. The problem has however been around for years with quarter mile. Alot of the problems have been compounded by the closing of Hidden Lakes, Lacey, Chatsworth Pits and Murphy's Pit. Not sure if you can still get to the Medford Pole lines or Power lines either. NJ needs a place for these big trucks to go. This would keep them out of the Pines and give it a chance to recover. The best way to interact is to become responsible, respectable wheelers. Get involved with a credible club, get involved with Politics so you have friend in Trenton. Band together and try to push for some sort of off road park. But till then no matter what, we will be looked at as Rogue Wheelers "tearing" up the forest.

 

[mudboy dave]

hey you got my event in new egypt at least lol.

 

[Broke Jeep Joe]

iitp - It's not all about the "big trucks" it's about irresponsibility. I have seen little trucks do just as much damage, sometimes more, than the bigger ones. It's all about what type of person is behind the wheel and what they are looking to do. As you mentioned the "closing" of some popular areas of my youth, while they did compond problems in places such as quarter mile, the things that when on there that led to their closure are exactly what are going on at 1/4, high crosiing, apple pie hill and a few other places and will eventually lead to their closure as well. $hit, there was a discussion on here weeks ago about fencing off apple pie hill to stop the destruction there. Dave (mudboy) has been pushing for an offroad park for years to no avail. The ORV park in Chatsworth didn't last long either.

 

[Aaron]

If all the people that wanted to go "4x4ering" chipped in there $$ i am sure they could find a nice piece of non pine barrens land to do this on, anyone that thinks the State of New Jersey is going to give them a place to 4x4 is crazy, it would not have happened before all the budget cuts that are being put in place so it certainly is not going to happen now that they are in place.

I know there are some responsible 4x4 enthusiast out there, I just think its ridiculous to expect the state to pay for this type of recreation. I know I know the state has places for you to hike and bike ride etc, but you never see posts here or anywhere about a hiker that did a crap load of damage to a protected area.

 

[Broke Jeep Joe]

Aaron- No one said they expected the state to pay for an ORV park, however, they are paying for it when they need to rebuild a road such as hampton or quaker bridge. As far as the hikers, etc. damaging an area, that is another rediculous statement. If I'm taking you wrong, I apologize in advance. If the area is "protected" why is the hiker in there in the first place? Damage is in the eye of the beholder. If you step on an endangered plant, bobPBX would say you damaged the area, If I drove a truck through a puddle and spun the tires, others would say I damaged the area. So, you see one type of damage is just as bad as another when you look at it from all perspectives.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron- No one said they expected the state to pay for an ORV park, however, they are paying for it when they need to rebuild a road such as hampton or quaker bridge. As far as the hikers, etc. damaging an area, that is another rediculous statement. If I'm taking you wrong, I apologize in advance. If the area is "protected" why is the hiker in there in the first place? Damage is in the eye of the beholder. If you step on an endangered plant, bobPBX would say you damaged the area, If I drove a truck through a puddle and spun the tires, others would say I damaged the area. So, you see one type of damage is just as bad as another when you look at it from all perspectives.

I understand and respect your position, i guess what it really comes down to is the Potential that 4wheelers have to do extensive damage. As a hiker i stay on the blazed trails for the safety of myself and for the good of the forest. I am sure there are plenty of 4 wheelers that do the same, but the few bad apples make such a glaring impact on an area, and do more damage than a hiker could do that it gives you guys a bad rap.

Has anyone considered getting all the 4x4ers together and purchasing a few hundred acres? To me that would be an ideal situation

 

[Broke Jeep Joe]

Aaron - Exactly, the potential for a 4x4 to do damage is greater than a hiker, however, have the hikers ever considered putting their money together for a parcel of land to hike on? or the horse riders? or the botanists or herpers? I'm not trying to push your buttons, just trying to get a point across. Trucks and cars for that matter have as much "right" to be in the pines as any hiker or equestrian, again its about being responsible in each of the venues we choose to use outdoors.

 

[MarkBNJ]

I understand and respect your position, i guess what it really comes down to is the Potential that 4wheelers have to do extensive damage. As a hiker i stay on the blazed trails for the safety of myself and for the good of the forest. I am sure there are plenty of 4 wheelers that do the same, but the few bad apples make such a glaring impact on an area, and do more damage than a hiker could do that it gives you guys a bad rap.

Has anyone considered getting all the 4x4ers together and purchasing a few hundred acres? To me that would be an ideal situation

Why is it for the good of the forest for a hiker to stay on blazed trails? Animals walk through the forest. I assume humans can do do without causing undue harm. I agree with your safety point however.

 

[mudboy dave]

Heres the problems with that A) insurance B) wetlands C) Wildlife.
For some reason this has worked in other states but here it becomes a problem.
No matter where we bought you'd have someone bitching about wetlands or some migrant bird just landed on a tree branch or something. It just something we have to face in this state. Also for ssome reason people seem more lawsuit happy around these parts. There is a club that has leased some land and uses it to this date but I'll be damned if I'm posting it publicly. It's lasted 10 years now no reason for it to stop now.

Aaron as far as the state goes, NO i do not see it happening. However they shouldnt have opened their mouths stating that they would. Not doing it is one thing, flat out lying is another thing, but then again this is new jersey so we should already be used to just having to bend over and take it....right? This is why I'm pushing on the trail system so hard. It's pretty simple. MAP the trails we can go down legally and if someone is caught off of it either to go 4 wheeling or to park and look at a cute little fuzzy animal, BAM THEY GET NAILED WITH a 1000 dollar ticket. Problem solved. we have trails we can go down, we don't go into the areas were not wanted and also no biased decisions can be made. I can turn in license plate numbers of those parked off of the trails destructing vegetation and if i was to wander off of the trail you could turn in mine.

 

[mudboy dave]

Why is it for the good of the forest for a hiker to stay on blazed trails? Animals walk through the forest. I assume humans can do do without causing undue harm. I agree with your safety point however.

Mark, some people are just better off smiling at waiving and after they pass you give em the salute Sorry Aaron but Mark really does have a point here.

 

[Aaron]

Mark- I dont know enough about local flora and plants in general to know which ones i should not step on, i would rather err on the side of caution and not damage anything in our one of a kind ecosystem that is the pine barrens.

Broke Jeep Joe- I can not speak for other hikers, but i plan on purchasing 30- 50 acres of land in PA in the next year maybe two. I understand your point i really do. And i appreciate your well thought out and responsible posts

 

[Aaron]

Mark, some people are just better off smiling at waiving and after they pass you give em the salute Sorry Aaron but Mark really does have a point here.

Dave no offense taken, we just come from different lines of thought. Your trail system sounds logical on the surface and therefore wont work in this state, May i suggest perhaps a move to either PA or NY state? Beautiful areas and less restrictive government.

 

[mudboy dave]

lol I'm aiming for North Carolina one of these days.

 

[mudboy dave]

Mark- I dont know enough about local flora and plants in general to know which ones i should not step on, i would rather err on the side of caution and not damage anything in our one of a kind ecosystem that is the pine barrens.

get the hell out of here lmao. do you think the thousands of deer give two flying &#$@@ about flora. walking through the brush isn't gonna cause any harm, the only thing you might do is put a wider footprint down than the deer hoove. better watch out for them pesky critters that eat that stuff too:rofl:

 

[MarkBNJ]

Mark- I dont know enough about local flora and plants in general to know which ones i should not step on, i would rather err on the side of caution and not damage anything in our one of a kind ecosystem that is the pine barrens.

Broke Jeep Joe- I can not speak for other hikers, but i plan on purchasing 30- 50 acres of land in PA in the next year maybe two. I understand your point i really do. And i appreciate your well thought out and responsible posts

There are few times of year when crashing through the brush in the barrens is fun anyway. Last time I really bushwhacked, up near Union Clay, I got 19 attached ticks and a bunch of chigger bites. I usually stick to the fire breaks these days.

 

[popeofthepines]

So years ago I, along with a group of other trucks were headed down Hampton Rd from rt 206 and we came to the large water hole off to the right before the large wood bridge. There was a truck stuck in there and a ranger was on site. I remember a key phrase he said that day or actually a question and that was to the driver of the stuck vehicle’ does that look like an established roadway?’ An established roadway is what we are allowed on and not romping through the woods to establish a new trail. And the people who do are just as wrong, as that person was that day. Those who wheel responsibly are not the problem, it’s the people who dig up the water holes, one so no one else can get through or two so a person loses their vehicle in the crater left behind, that are the problem. I know there are people who ride horses who do not like trucks being back there and I do understand the scare factor for the horses but they just feel wheelers wreck the environment. I see a horse coming towards me I stop and wait until it passes, if I see a horse ahead I wait until I see the horse moved off of the road.
As far as high crossing, I have seen it go downhill since they removed the tracks and have watched as the huge lake of a puddle has progressed toward those 3 puddles across the road. I used to go through there but don’t anymore because I am not going to cause anymore progress for that area to go downhill further.
We know the state is strapped cash so bet your ass you know anyone caught doing something wrong is going to be fined to the fullest extent. And I agree that the person who did this should be prosecuted to the fullest extent as well but it will be a hard person to find. So until then, let’s try and keep the pine barrens a civil place while we are back there. We all use it and want to keep being able to use it to the fullest. Tread lightly and use common sense. And yes I know common sense is not available to all or I should say not used by all but if we go with our guts we should know the correct answer to the question presented.
If we don’t we are going to lose more places to enjoy with and without our vehicles. This could happen via the state via guardrails and so forth or it could happen with just straight pollution of the ground from chemicals being spilled into it and so forth
I like dave’s idea and the penalty that goes with it but we all know the cash strapperd state is not in any hurry to do such a thing.

 

[popeofthepines]

And as to aaron, who are you to tell 4x4ers what they should do with their money or suggest it to them? Everyone pays for that land because it is public land. And while you may believe that since there are no posts that nothing happens to protected lands via the hikers and bikers it does not mean it does not happen?
I see your post about getting money together to buy land in PA and that is great but what are you going to do until then? Obviously you enjoy what the pines have to offer but don't like sharing? If I am wrong I apologize but for now that is how I see it

If all the people that wanted to go "4x4ering" chipped in there $$ i am sure they could find a nice piece of non pine barrens land to do this on, anyone that thinks the State of New Jersey is going to give them a place to 4x4 is crazy, it would not have happened before all the budget cuts that are being put in place so it certainly is not going to happen now that they are in place.

I know there are some responsible 4x4 enthusiast out there, I just think its ridiculous to expect the state to pay for this type of recreation. I know I know the state has places for you to hike and bike ride etc, but you never see posts here or anywhere about a hiker that did a crap load of damage to a protected area.