New Friendship Gate

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,238
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Pines; Bamber area
I wish the PPA would put the same amount of effort they expend in anti-vehicle propaganda into working to secure several areas for off-road people and their families. These vehicles are not going away, so they might as well limit the damage by providing areas for them to do their thing. They have influence, money, and time, so get moving on it.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
508
236
43
Waterford Twp
I wish the PPA would put the same amount of effort they expend in anti-vehicle propaganda into working to secure several areas for off-road people and their families. These vehicles are not going away, so they might as well limit the damage by providing areas for them to do their thing. They have influence, money, and time, so get moving on it.
100% agree Bob that would be fantastic! almost like working together to a resolve! I recently read an article about blueberry farms in Hammonton polluting the ground water with waste (human and other) due to the horrid illegal conditions the migrant workers live in. Why wouldn't the PPA be at the forefront of something like that instead of preventing the average traveler, photographer or hunter easier access to acreage of forest when species they want to protect can be controlled in its growth area? In my own opinion the PPA and the offload outlaws I will call them, are so far apart this would never happen, one would never give to the other and the other would never take from the one. I have said many times that "we"(non mudders) and the PPA are not that far apart in what we are striving for, but I will recant that now. The PPA and like thinkers continually make moves to drive a large wedge between them and folks that don't share their exact views and plan, which makes it impossible to work together. It is the same with monster truck driving, hole digging idiots that think they own the forest not unlike the PPA does. In looking at the video Jon posted the opinion of the NJCF and the PPA about anyone in the woods but themselves is clear. I will say the same for the videos and info on, what was it, "dirt bag 4x4" There is no difference in what either of the groups are doing, and that in my opinion is screwing the general public out of access, either with a gate or big tire ruts. I honestly hope someone can prove the theory that they are planting these endangered plants to control closure, I also hope something is done with the videos of the mud trucks too.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,238
1,967
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
... The PPA and like thinkers continually make moves to drive a large wedge between them and folks that don't share their exact views and plan, which makes it impossible to work together. It is the same with monster truck driving, hole digging idiots that think they own the forest not unlike the PPA does. In looking at the video Jon posted the opinion of the NJCF and the PPA about anyone in the woods but themselves is clear. I will say the same for the videos and info on, what was it, "dirt bag 4x4" There is no difference in what either of the groups are doing, and that in my opinion is screwing the general public out of access, either with a gate or big tire ruts.
Well said Joe. PPA would do itself a huge favor by funding and/or conducting investigation into state or private owned land for the purpose of creating several off-road parks, and then promoting the sale and development to the the state government officials. I'm not talking 50 parks, I'm talking about maybe 2 in each pineland county (Burlington, Ocean, Atlantic). Ideally, these would be closer to the margins of the pines, but that should not be a strict criteria. I've seen a lot of pinelands that would suit the purpose. Would there have to be some tolerance be given to sacrificing a small amount of the environment? Yes, but it's all for the greater good of allowing some honest family recreation while also preserving the core of the barrens, which will have all of it's roads remain open with a caveat; a small stipend from each off-road park fee will go towards funding better enforcement of the core area to slam people who feel entitled to ignore the off-road parks in order to sling mud in the core area.
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,504
556
1,093
I do realize the areas in Wharton are all walkable and FPP is non motorized, now these areas in WSF are only accessible to the fortunate folks that can walk great distances.
This will create a major hurdle for people who want to see a beautiful and remote area that was hard to access before the gate was installed. And especially for fanatics like me who want to be there at sunrise.
No pedestrian accesses provided at these gates. You must crawl under them.
 

mowergod

Scout
Apr 9, 2011
60
59
18
Jon that's a great idea. Chris Christie did it so why can't we
But until we get a different Gov in Trenton we're going to be screwed the PPA had the gov's wife and the goofy AG out there to show them there big picture and those two fell for there B.S. and us little guys are lumped with the off-road nuts that just want a free for all out there which is so far from the truth it's insane but unfortunately that's how there looking at it. We need more legislature support to stop the madness but that's not going to happen eather
 
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popeofthepines

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
166
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28
Atco
Jon that's a great idea. Chris Christie did it so why can't we
But until we get a different Gov in Trenton we're going to be screwed the PPA had the gov's wife and the goofy AG out there to show them there big picture and those two fell for there B.S. and us little guys are lumped with the off-road nuts that just want a free for all out there which is so far from the truth it's insane but unfortunately that's how there looking at it. We need more legislature support to stop the madness but that's not going to happen eather
I agree 100%. And we do need more support and have to figure out which legislatures can offer us that support before it gets too much further out of hand.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
508
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Waterford Twp
I agree 100%. And we do need more support and have to figure out which legislatures can offer us that support before it gets too much further out of hand.
We need to be consistent and more active in our clubs, coalitions, partnerships or whatever you want to call them and that is all the support and voice we would need! The one thing the PPA has loyalty in its members, which is something all of the groups that have been started and failed and started again to stand up to them did not seem to have. I get that they are paid for their time and we are not, but we all seem to band together to fight the initial cause and then disband when we think its all over, no consistency or longevity. The hunters and enduro clubs seem to have it down, we do not. I'm not sure how to make it happen.
 

Teegate

Administrator
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Sep 17, 2002
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So far the only roads being closed are the ones most people don't even go down, so you have not heard much outcry except here. Once things get more serious you will start to see the public became more aware. History show us that complete portions of the world have been taken over when the rights of the citizens are slowly eroded as they are being done right here.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
508
236
43
Waterford Twp
So far the only roads being closed are the ones most people don't even go down, so you have not heard much outcry except here. Once things get more serious you will start to see the public became more aware. History show us that complete portions of the world have been taken over when the rights of the citizens are slowly eroded as they are being done right here.
Completely agree on the rights infringement here Guy! In my opinion if only one person uses the road and it is closed under pretenses such as these everyone should be outraged. I don't look at roads out there as if most people don't use them, I feel more people do then we are aware. Usually just when I start to think "I'm the only one that has been on this road in quite some time", I come bumper to bumper with someone else! I, like yourself, enjoy the lesser traveled roads that can lead to a new discovery for me!
 

1Jerseydevil

Explorer
Feb 14, 2009
353
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28
The PPA is a business. They have large donations from companies written off as environmental support. The PPA has its own commercial enterprises "exploiting" the Pines for more income and of course the relentless plea to members for donations. The management is highly paid while the majority of the workforce is dependent on volunteers. Follow the money.

The rest of us, on the other hand, have to go to work, raise families and contend with all the other aspects of life. Any money is directly out of our pockets. Time to organize is directly taken away from everyday life and in all cases is another debt taken on as donations. We all bitch but ultimately the majority of us for the reasons stated do nothing or if we do, quickly tire of the fight and fall by the wayside.

The enduro clubs are not organized and have it together as someone stated. They are losing ground the same as everyone else for the same reasons I stated above. We're fighting a paid business, PPA. We could get things done if our cause was our work we go to every day and be paid. This is what we're up against. Not impossible but certainly extremely difficult.

The Chatsworth ORV park was a good thing in a good place. When the lease came up for renewal the PPA convinced the landowner not to renew, initially, they were going to renew. Money was set aside at the ORV park from entrance fees to purchase land elsewhere. When another abandoned sandpit was purchased, the PPA behind the scenes, riled the nearby residents to stop the plans. The third location was desperately chosen after many objections of more suitable locations, the PPA in the background. The ORV park is in the meadows in Cape May and purchased with State money this time. For various reasons that ORV park never really opened and as far as I know lays abandoned. I know all this was discussed here years ago in greater detail. I just wanted to mention again for new peeps that may not be aware of the situation.
 

popeofthepines

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
166
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28
Atco
This is from this site - https://www.njconservation.org/current-issues/

And i posting it here because I want to show that it is not only the PPA we are fighting but the NJCF. So as 1jerseydevil said, we are up against people who are paid to do this and most of us have other jobs that limit our ability to fight this.

Anyone aware of the what the third point is referring to concerning Brendan Byrne State Forest?
  • In 2017, the DEP pulled back from its plan to curb harmful off-road vehicle traffic in Wharton State Forest. However, we worked with the Pinelands Preservation Alliance and succeeded in urging the Pinelands Commission to adopt a motorized access map for all of Wharton. We are advocating that the DEP, under the Murphy Administration, enforce this new regulation and expand the designation of appropriate motorized access routes to all public lands in the Pine Barrens.
    This includes:
    • Development of signs and downloadable mapping tools so all visitors are aware of and responsible for vehicular use of state lands
    • Increased enforcement and development of restoration plans for degraded wetlands, streambanks and other illegal vehicular damage
    • Uphold the recently-developed policy of prohibiting the use of “single-track” forest trails for Enduro-type dirt bike motorcycle races on state lands. Single-track trails scar the landscape and are constantly re-used without permits, causing significant harm to natural resources. Recent actions at Brendan Byrne State Forest indicate that the single-track trail prohibition is not being followed.
 

mowergod

Scout
Apr 9, 2011
60
59
18
We have many things working against us we have Rob the superintendant Jason Howell his Sideshow buddy Al and the PPA the njcf our goofy gov cuckoo and his band of idiots and the A@$%oles who are destroying the pines like those seen on th Instagram page for Dirtbag4x4 (the DEP should be looking and investigate this site and the pics therein) but if we don't atleast try to fight this B.S. we only have ourselves to blame. Now having said that we must find more legislature support to stop the PPA from winning truth be told there part of the problem with there canoe trucks and there customers who break the rules of the state park like no alcohol and pack in pack out I frequent the mullica river canoe launch by batsto and find trash constantly and one of there driver's even told people to leave it as there's no room on the bus I did report this but the next day it was still there so I did my part and took it home for disposal THE PPA thinks they are above the law and don't get me started with the pinelands commission
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
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We have many things working against us we have Rob the superintendant Jason Howell his Sideshow buddy Al and the PPA the njcf our goofy gov cuckoo and his band of idiots and the A@$%oles who are destroying the pines like those seen on th Instagram page for Dirtbag4x4 (the DEP should be looking and investigate this site and the pics therein) but if we don't atleast try to fight this B.S. we only have ourselves to blame. Now having said that we must find more legislature support to stop the PPA from winning truth be told there part of the problem with there canoe trucks and there customers who break the rules of the state park like no alcohol and pack in pack out I frequent the mullica river canoe launch by batsto and find trash constantly and one of there driver's even told people to leave it as there's no room on the bus I did report this but the next day it was still there so I did my part and took it home for disposal THE PPA thinks they are above the law and don't get me started with the pinelands commission
All sounds about right.
 
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