New Jersey State Program Helps OHV’ers Gain Access to Land
- Thread starter AJ1957
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That article was back in March, before the OTV park fell apart. I wonder what their feeling is now.
I didn't mean to infer they were, but meant the new one the state was supposed to be supporting, but hasn't.
Blame Fred Akers. He's the guy that lives right by there.
I once tried to have a rational conversation about the subject with him. He was absolutely, rabidly, against any ORV use anywhere. The guy was really nasty with me for no reason except that I feel that he probably gets off by being such a nasty, angry person.
The state wants to build it. It's just being held up by lawsuit after lawsuit.
That guy has too many pies in the oven, a true enviroMENTALIST, emphasis on the highlighted portion of the word. Those folks just can't seem to see the forest for the tree's.
46er have you had other dealings with Fred. Just curious since it seems you have established an opinion on his character?
Ok that is fair. I've had dealings with Fred and all were positive. He went/and is going out of his way to protect some vernal pools that continually get monster trucks driven through them. I understand the plights of both the ORV and conservation community. But I've seen so much destruction by ORV's in protected, posted areas that it becomes hard to have respect for some of their activities....I continue to keep an open mind though.
I suspect one of those ponds I posted photo's of his handiwork a while back. If he did that I would have to commend him.
http://teegate.njpinebarrens.com/05032008/IMG_0832.JPG
Guy
Ah the pool off of the tracks.....wow that pool has been destroyed hasn't it. Doesn't seem to hold water like it use to, I sometimes wonder if that doesn't have something to due with quads and cars going through it.....I don't think thats his work, but more so Emile's or Louis.
Fred is helping Brandon(njsnakemen) with some vernal pool work down in Atlantic county...he has been very helpful.
Fred is helping Brandon(njsnakemen) with some vernal pool work down in Atlantic county...he has been very helpful.
Yeah not sure how much I sympathize with the orv people . . . they generally seem pretty indignant considering they invested in a hobby knowing it was illegal in most places. Like buying a gun and then making a stink for not being allowed to shoot it anywhere you want.
And really - I get that its fun. I'm sure I'd love it. But like many people in this state I don't own an expanse of land, so I don't feel I'm entitled to do whatever I want with someone else's (or everyone else's - i.e. public) land.
Maybe i'm just putting the MENTAL in environmental or whatever, but it just seems irrational to allow widespread degradation of a public resource because of the recreational demands of a small special-interest group.
And really - I get that its fun. I'm sure I'd love it. But like many people in this state I don't own an expanse of land, so I don't feel I'm entitled to do whatever I want with someone else's (or everyone else's - i.e. public) land.
Maybe i'm just putting the MENTAL in environmental or whatever, but it just seems irrational to allow widespread degradation of a public resource because of the recreational demands of a small special-interest group.
Remember that ORV people are not really one massive organized group. It is better to think of them as individuals. You most certainly don't have to sympathize with someone who rides around in vernal pools with 44" tires. But you might find it easier to understand someone who likes to ride on enduro trails with 4" tires.
There are a tremdous amount of people out there (many from out of state) who just come down on the weekend to get muddy with no thought what so ever for pines. Perhaps considering it a vast waste land of sorts. Growing up in Monmouth county, I can tell you that that was the perception.
There people are just jerks, not an orv community. The various "official" ORV type organizations are quite a bit more respectful of the environment.
Jeff
Well they opened up Chatsworth and that gave a lot of people a chance to ride legally and the experience turned a lot of people on to the sport. Many of these people then purchased an ATV or a off-road motorcycle to ride there. A large majority of people were aware that the lease on the Chatsworth land was for 10 years. Many questioned what would happen. Don't worry the state state, we promise 2 new off road parks by the end of 2005. The riders breathed a sigh of relief, feeling much more comfortable about their purchase and the availability of legal land to ride on in the future.
Now its almost 2009 and Chatsworth has closed and there have been zero off road parks built. You think a few people felt like they got screwed?
To follow on Bobbleton's comment, you can buy a gun and go to plenty of places in NJ where you are allowed to go shoot. In fact, when you pay for a hunting license, a portion of that money goes to pay for the upkeep of WMA's and shooting ranges.
When pay to license your vehicle and ORV a portion of that money goes into a 'trails fund' which is supposed to help finance places to legally ride ORVs. So essentially people are paying money into a fund and not getting anything out of it.
I have beaten this subject to death on this site and am not going to get into it again. I have made plenty of enemies by making my viewpoints known.
When pay to license your vehicle and ORV a portion of that money goes into a 'trails fund' which is supposed to help finance places to legally ride ORVs. So essentially people are paying money into a fund and not getting anything out of it.
I have beaten this subject to death on this site and am not going to get into it again. I have made plenty of enemies by making my viewpoints known.
I consider myself to be an environmentalist, and truely don't have issue with alot of ORV traffic. The woods is for everyone to use and many peoples money goes towards using it and preserving it. I would hope that the ORV community can police itself like other communities. I mean if you see someone tearing up a vernal pool than you should tell them that is a bad idea, and continued activity like that is going to result in no ORV traffic.
Bob H., I hear what your saying but remember many of the spots we get to to look for snakes is by my cherokee, which is much more destructive then says someones eduro. The only people I've ever had issues with is young kids on quads, but most adults I've encountered on ORV's understand and have respect. But before people start riding they should educate themselves on the do's and don't, and respect it.
Jeff, I agree with you on the out of state stuff, most of the people I see collecting snakes, illegally riding, vandalizing, etc etc, are out of state, it seems NJ is just sort of a dump to out of staters.
Bob H., I hear what your saying but remember many of the spots we get to to look for snakes is by my cherokee, which is much more destructive then says someones eduro. The only people I've ever had issues with is young kids on quads, but most adults I've encountered on ORV's understand and have respect. But before people start riding they should educate themselves on the do's and don't, and respect it.
Jeff, I agree with you on the out of state stuff, most of the people I see collecting snakes, illegally riding, vandalizing, etc etc, are out of state, it seems NJ is just sort of a dump to out of staters.
Offroad vehicle use is an old issue, and not just in this state. Some have worked on providing a solution, others have not and just made it illegal. The link is to the results of a study done in NY for the Adirondacks when I was up there, the paper is from 2003 and is biased, however there is a section showing different state approaches to the issue at the time, and much detail on theissue in the Adirondacks.
http://www.wcs.org/media/file/ATVs_in_ADKs.pdf
http://www.wcs.org/media/file/ATVs_in_ADKs.pdf
I'll be the first one to admit that I am a huge orv enthusiast. not so much atvs but the "monster trucks". I'm currently building a toyota thats getting a big block wedged in there and at the smallest 44" tires. but at the same time it will not be used for anything but professional mud bogs and some friends private property. I have a little cherokee for running around on the trails (not swamps). I believe that it is a sport like any other that should have a legal place to go (just like almost every other state). The ORV people can help out the hikers, biordwatchers, photographers etc. and they can help us. It works in other states it would be nice to see the same here. Golfers have Golf courses ( which take out more trees than any ORV), Boaters have boat ramps and marinas ( do some water analysis's). These people pay to use them and even alot of TAX money goes into some of them. It would just be nice to get some of these abandoned gravel pits. In the long run I know that it is not a battle that will be won by either side in this state. I'll continue to help others even though alot work against me. Oh and just so you do know, yes i realize that there is ALOT of morons on both atvs and in their trucks.
There is a lot of moronic behaviour on both sides of the issue. Common sense tends to get thrown out the window much too often. I think most folks would have no problem with your post, I know I don't.