New Woods and Male Bonding

[Jerseyman]

The topography on both sides of the creeks in this area is steeply sloping. Not a likely area for attempting bog operations.
Downstream towards New Lisbon and to the north bogs can be seen on the older maps that Bob posted and there are still active bogs on the road we drove in on.
The second map Bob posted shows what appears to be the canal we walked going directly into a bog near the railroad.
I think the primary purpose of the pond and canal system was more power related.
Look at Bob's second map and look at the elevation contours starting upstream of the area where we found the earthen dam. You are up in the 120 elevations and drop to around 70 a the dam. New Lisbon is down at 49.
There is an extraordinary amount of elevation difference along this stream corridor, especially for a coastal plain stream.
I think our industrious forefathers figured this out with some topographic surveying and were able to squeeze every HP out of this stream using the advantages of gravity.
Strangely, even today, gravity is free.

Scott

Scott:

According to Volume III of the State Geologist Final Report (1894), the one on Water Supply, Upper Mill was out of service and Lower Mill, operated by Alfred L. Black at that time, had a fall of 7 feet, which generated 30 gross horsepower and 15 net horsepower.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[RednekF350]

Scott:

According to Volume III of the State Geologist Final Report (1894), the one on Water Supply, Upper Mill was out of service and Lower Mill, operated by Alfred L. Black at that time, had a fall of 7 feet, which generated 30 gross horsepower and 15 net horsepower.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

I now think one of the reasons we found the flow remarkable on Saturday was the stream gradient, after having seen the topographic maps.
When you can only see 50 yards or so each way it is hard to estimate slope.

 

[woodjin]

Oh, but Jeff my Pines Brother, I disagree. Look at the 1812 map again. That little symbol next to Bispham means mill. The writer of the map is not telling us its the name of the creek, he's saying there were 2 mills on Bisphams creek and both were named Bisphams.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=3792&fullsize=1

but they are in the exact locations as upper and lower mill. I think it was a generalization by the map maker. i think he was illustrating the upper and lower mills.

 

[woodjin]

The topography on both sides of the creeks in this area is steeply sloping. Not a likely area for attempting bog operations.
Downstream towards New Lisbon and to the north bogs can be seen on the older maps that Bob posted and there are still active bogs on the road we drove in on.
The second map Bob posted shows what appears to be the canal we walked going directly into a bog near the railroad.
I think the primary purpose of the pond and canal system was more power related.
Look at Bob's second map and look at the elevation contours starting upstream of the area where we found the earthen dam. You are up in the 120 elevations and drop to around 70 a the dam. New Lisbon is down at 49.
There is an extraordinary amount of elevation difference along this stream corridor, especially for a coastal plain stream.
I think our industrious forefathers figured this out with some topographic surveying and were able to squeeze every HP out of this stream using the advantages of gravity.
Strangely, even today, gravity is free.

Scott

I think this info only supports my theory: The natural steep grade on either side of Bisphams mill branch would have made the creation of bogs adjacent to the river impossible, which is why it was constructed within the river system. The elevation would have allowed for a strong flow for the water to be diverted into the canals, away from the main channel and then eventually back in. So gravity still worked in favor of the theory. There was still a mill at lower mill, so the idea of utilizing the power of the flow was still in place. As for the canal leading to the railroad and beyond...true, but it had to cross mt. Misery brook first, so the water would have been fed back there and well, as I theorized, back into the lake/bog area.

I should also mention that the rivers in this area are very carved into the earth, with a swampy, level "buffer" between the river and the ridge. I saw this on mt misery brook in several places where there had been no manmade alteration to the river system. I think the land owners wanted to utilize the natural topography.

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

Jeff:

Can you provide me with the approximate size of the deep pond and shallow pond? Did you also notice a series of shallow depressions anywhere nearby? I think my first suspicions are correct, but I will wait to hear from you regarding the requested dimensions.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

I live very close by. When I get a chance I will revisit to provide better description.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Jeff and Co.

Let me know the next time you visit these spots. You've got my interest peeked.

 

[woodjin]

I/we will. I might try to get out there soon to follow up on a couple hunches and investigate the ponds that Jerseyman is inquiring about but that visit might be under some serious time constraints. I am sure a proper follow up visit is in order and we will be certain to let you know.

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

Jeff, your theory sounds very interesting, and I'm sure at least part of it may be right. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. If you sketched it out and scanned it into a PDF or JPG file, I could see better what you are saying.

Well, this looks more confusing than it really is. I can barely draw a straight line you know. I don't know if this is helpful or not but I tried.

 

[woodjin]

maybe it worked now. Sorry it is upside down.

 

[woodjin]

Bob and Scott, another thing, do you remember the steep ridges that we saw as we walked the lake bed back toward lower forge? Remember we thought they resembled causeways? Maybe they were the remains of land bridges to seperate the bogs.

Jeff

 

[Jerseyman]

maybe it worked now. Sorry it is upside down.

Jeff:

I downloaded your map and flipped it around so I could read it. You may be correct concerning the cranberry bogs, but here is my take on the hydraulics represented on your drawing:

With the map flipped around (Upper Mill at the bottom of the drawing), the left-hand canal provided bypass flow into Bispham's Mill Creek to power Lower Mill from Upper Mill's millpond. The right-hand served as a bypass for times when the dam or flow control equipment required maintenance or repair or when operations at both mills shut down. I can't tell you what purpose the small ponds served. They might represent borrow pits for supplying material for the dam, but I can't be certain. Any freshet flowing down through the millpond and the canal could have done serious damage to the earthen works and control mechanisms and the need to divert water for repairs would have been essential!

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[woodjin]

Very interesting Jerseyman. The idea of a canal dedicated to power lower forge makes sense. Now you are saying that the other canal was inplace to supply water to the bogs system when the causeway was under repair....interesting, I suppose that makes sense, I was thinking that the canal would allow for greater control of water level especially if the bogs were segmented by land bridges (which my not have been the case).

Although I don't think it affects your observations, I should point out that my rendering is not to scale and that the upper mill millpond was over a mile up stream from the causway (begining of the lake) Thanks for your observations. Have you ever seen this type of engineering in a bog system before? It is definitely much different to more "modern" designs.

Jeff

 

[Jerseyman]

Very interesting Jerseyman. The idea of a canal dedicated to power lower forge makes sense. Now you are saying that the other canal was inplace to supply water to the bogs system when the causeway was under repair....interesting, I suppose that makes sense, I was thinking that the canal would allow for greater control of water level especially if the bogs were segmented by land bridges (which my not have been the case).

Although I don't think it affects your observations, I should point out that my rendering is not to scale and that the upper mill millpond was over a mile up stream from the causway (begining of the lake) Thanks for your observations. Have you ever seen this type of engineering in a bog system before? It is definitely much different to more "modern" designs.

Jeff

Jeff:

Actually, my observations relate strictly to the hydraulics of the mill operations. Whether or not the canals also operated with the bogs is unknown to me. I am aware of the distance between the two mills. I should clarify when I say the canal on the left side allowed operation of Lower Mill from the Upper Mill millpond. What I mean by that is the canal supplied water from the Upper Mill millpond to the Lower Mill millpond and possibly raised its head for increased horsepower. Sorry for the confusion. The canal on the right side provide a diversion channel for water in the Upper Mill millpond. When the mill operator shut down Upper Mill, the water that continued building behind the dam had to have an outlet, so he could divert that water down the right-hand canal. Likewise, if he had to repair the dam or his water control gates, he could increase the flow down that right-hand canal to lower the lake's water level. I hope this follow-up provides some clarification of my previous comments. I knew what I was trying to say, but I didn't make it clear to everyone else!

Best regards,
Jerseyman

P.S. In reconsidering your map, I think the right-hand canal is the tailrace for the sawmill at Upper Mill. The tailrace carries away the water after it provides movement to the wheel or turbine. I think this is a much more likely scenario. Of course, the tailrace could also serve as a diversion channel, as described above, if the mill operator wanted to lower the water level in the millpond for maintenance. He would simply lock the wheel or turbine, preventing movement, and the water would flow on.

 

[bobpbx]

Jeff, I don't remember a canal per se on the left hand side. Then again you may have noticed something I did not. I saw a big canal, but I thought it only went 10 yards. Also, I don't remember a cranberry bog. It would be neat to map it out in more detail after another excursion.

 

[woodjin]

Jeff:

Actually, my observations relate strictly to the hydraulics of the mill operations. Whether or not the canals also operated with the bogs is unknown to me. I am aware of the distance between the two mills. I should clarify when I say the canal on the left side allowed operation of Lower Mill from the Upper Mill millpond. What I mean by that is the canal supplied water from the Upper Mill millpond to the Lower Mill millpond and possibly raised its head for increased horsepower. Sorry for the confusion. The canal on the right side provide a diversion channel for water in the Upper Mill millpond. When the mill operator shut down Upper Mill, the water that continued building behind the dam had to have an outlet, so he could divert that water down the right-hand canal. Likewise, if he had to repair the dam or his water control gates, he could increase the flow down that right-hand canal to lower the lake's water level. I hope this follow-up provides some clarification of my previous comments. I knew what I was trying to say, but I didn't make it clear to everyone else!

Best regards,
Jerseyman

P.S. In reconsidering your map, I think the right-hand canal is the tailrace for the sawmill at Upper Mill. The tailrace carries away the water after it provides movement to the wheel or turbine. I think this is a much more likely scenario. Of course, the tailrace could also serve as a diversion channel, as described above, if the mill operator wanted to lower the water level in the millpond for maintenance. He would simply lock the wheel or turbine, preventing movement, and the water would flow on.

Thanks for the claification. My only concern with your observation would be that the causeway where the canal entered was more than a mile downstream from the upper mill millpond, again, my sketch, incorrectly, seems to show upper mill much closer than it actually is.

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

Jeff, I don't remember a canal per se on the left hand side. Then again you may have noticed something I did not. I saw a big canal, but I thought it only went 10 yards. Also, I don't remember a cranberry bog. It would be neat to map it out in more detail after another excursion.

I thought we saw a canal on that side, after we walked to New Lisbon road and were walking back. Between the causeway and the road. Maybe I am not remembering it right or I noticed it and you didn't. As for the cranberry bog...there wasn't one, at least not what we know as cranberry bogs. I am speculating that the lake botton was the cranberry bog. Remember those ridges on the west bank and I said looks like a causeway, and you said "yes, it does, but it is a matter of conjecture" Maybe they were land bridges to seperate the bogs, although, it is odd that they would no longer stretch across the entire lake bed.

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

Beautiful day today but I only had about an hour to get back to lower mill area to provide additional info, specifically in the location of the sulfur pit for Jerseyman.

I went back there and took mental notes then sketched it out. Note: where I wrote land bridge and then canal it looks as though there is a gap between them, most of the time the canal was adjacent to the land bridge. Also, I did not find a canal leading from the long canal we investigated to the area where the sulfur pit was, it might be where the seeping stream is, or not at all.

Here are pics that correspond to areas on the sketch. The incredibly dense cat brier made photo taking tricky.

Deep cut pond

pond next to sulfur pit.

Sulfur smelling pit

sulfur pit again

Deep cut swamp, I am on top of the ridge looking down

Taken from inside the canal leading from pond to deep cut swamp

I walked down stream to lower mill site, this is it from across the stream.

Beaver activity on land bridge

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

On my way out I visited lower mill site and took some photos.
Celler holes

One thing that confused me...I revisited the cause way upstream from the last trip and noticed that the canal leading away from it was quite steep, seemed to steep to have diverted water from Bisphams Mill branch. There was also a small, now dry pond, attached to the canal about 50 feet from Bisphams mill branch. I traced the canal to where it meets mt. Misery brook and took this photo.

As you can kind of see, it is also steep and is coming from a ridge. doesn't seem like water could have run in this direction either. There was no evidence in either canal of mill remains or water diversion equipment

Here is a pic of the beautiful Bisphams mill branch near the sulfur pit and ponds

Jeff

 

[woodjin]

Oh, but Jeff my Pines Brother, I disagree. Look at the 1812 map again. That little symbol next to Bispham means mill. The writer of the map is not telling us its the name of the creek, he's saying there were 2 mills on Bisphams creek and both were named Bisphams.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=3792&fullsize=1

Bob, I had Beck's "Forgotten Towns" in my lap and it happened to fall open to page 185 (in my old edition) and my eyes fell on this brief and only reference to Bispham's mill

"Reeves, who owns a great deal of land in the vicinity, has a deed which refers to a Bispham Mill, which was apparently on the sam site (as upper mill) in the late 1600's."

It then goes on to say that there are a number of indians relics in the woods and clearings.

Jeff

 

[james ungehajer]

Real nice pics jeff,that area is definitely stoking my interest.That cat briar looks virtually impossible to breech.