NJ Forest Fire Impacts 30 Acres
- Thread starter dogg57
- Start date
I took a ride down Mines Spung Road this morning and did not see evidence of the fire until I got to Sandy Ridge Quaker Bridge Road. The fire was apparently contained to the south of that road, I did not go all the way to Tuckerton. From Devious road to Quaker Bridge it was burned to the south, some of it probably back fires. SRQB Road was damaged by the heavy traffic. There was still some smoke in some places. What I saw was not any worse than prescribed burns, but maybe it was just that. I may go further tomorrow. The Penn Branch Mountain Bike Trail got clobbered.
Red is the extent of my drive.
Red is the extent of my drive.
That area already had a lot of downed trees from the derecho a couple years back.They had to clear that road extensively after that storm and the woods were littered with big blowdowns.
Did some exploring in the burnt area today. It has never been more clear to me that the fire breaks are completely useless.
Care to elaborate?
The fire breaks are only to control "controlled" burns. During a forest fire the tree crowns are burning spread by wind and wind generated by the fire itself. The only fire break in this situation is a wide road from which the fire service can set back fires and then there are times roads are breached.
If your talking the value of controlled burns to the forest ecosystem, that's another topic.
JerseyDevil,
I'd like to learn more about this. There were dozens of new trenches dug near the burn area, and there was no sign of a controlled burn around many of them. I also noticed a bunch of older trenches that parallel some roads. What's the purpose of that?
I'd like to learn more about this. There were dozens of new trenches dug near the burn area, and there was no sign of a controlled burn around many of them. I also noticed a bunch of older trenches that parallel some roads. What's the purpose of that?
And you would prefer massive, large burns, that burn hot and destroy just about everything?
Some good educational material from our USFS and our friends to the north.
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/management/index.html
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/AFFM/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_165402.html
And kill a lot of critters! This years burn at Carranza was so hot the crowns of the trees are brown and dropping needles. The snakes, turtles and lizards could not have survived. Even if some did, the burn was so extensive that they will not be able to find food. Yes, the berries will come back but no fruit this year. Eco disaster.
I assume your "everything" means houses, farms, and people. Gabe is not saying that. He is saying the forest fire service needs to use a lighter touch when controlling fires. Bulldozing, plow lines, airplanes, and invasions of heavy brush trucks are used far too often in the Pine Barrens. The pines are heavily crisscrossed with sand roads, streams, and deer strips. It would be great if they would start using them to make their stand against the fires in a calculated, sensible way before they just plow in with a heavy hand. Also, they should always consider the impact of stopping all fires immediately. It would make more sense to step back and decide where best to stop it, while also giving full consideration to the benefits to a good, hot fire.
I'm not in the forest service, a know a few that are. I believe we have a member or two here, maybe if they are informed they can better reply.
What I've been told and see, the forest service must apply and be approved by Pinelands and this is not done over night as you may think. They have a very short window in which to burn. They generally stop the 2nd week of March, but if weather conditions, snow cover, rain, high wind, etc. like this year they are allowed until April 1st. I see refreshed and sometimes new plow lines and no burn. The plow lines are done well in advance, usually winter when the ground isn't frozen. If they run out of time like last year and this year those fresh plow lines will have to "wait" until the following year. This happened in Greenwood last year.
I don't know all the particulars, but their burn time is after hunting season and before the snakes and what not come out of hibernation. The idea of the controlled burn is to limit the available ground cover in an attempt to prevent wildfire. However once the fire gets into the crowns, it's not really a matter of ground cover.
I'm of the believe the Pines should be burned, but with a hotter fire as nature wants, but where and how do you draw the line between a hot controlled burn and a wildfire? People forget the Pines are BECAUSE of fire. The Pines ecosystem seems to have done just fine until "we" decided we "know" better. Nature is harsh and yes animals will be killed, they have in the past and will in the future, you just can't save everything. After a wildfire the area comes back stronger then before, animals return and are able to feed "better" on the new growth.
The most recent wildfire that is regenerating is the Warren Grove fire. Those that think fire is bad only need to take a hike in this area. Yes I was out there a week after the fire and I admit it was scorched earth. Seen many turtles dead in the roads and deer dead around the ponds. Two weeks latter I was back and there were birds, new growth popping out and frogs in the ponds. I know hunters that hunt that area both before the fire and now. I don't know where all the deer went but apparently most survived as the hunters say they continue to get their bag limit just as easily as before. I'm sure the snakes are doing just fine also, except maybe for those that were penned for their "protection" when Walters began development of the old land fill.
The only bad with wildfire is destruction of property, buildings, developments, possible loss of human life.
I'm not sure hat you mean by "everything". But to answer the rest of your question, I do believe that massive, hot fires have sustained our Pine Barrens eco system in the past and should continue to do so now and into the future. Do you have reasons for thinking otherwise? If so, I'd like to hear them.
Ed when did they do that burn out at Caranza? I was fairly suprised to see, it looked like a wildfire to me. The plows line destroy alot of dens, as long as the fire is done in the winter the animals will be ok. However, they burned so hard I think predation will be high and many may starve when they come up because of the lack of anything.
Speaking of the massive burn along Carranza, that was a good hot burn that gutted the litter and lower canopy. It opened up the area dramatically. All of the visual references were lost and I was actually confused when trying to locate of few things Sunday morning. Anything that was residing in the area will be north of Damsleff Avenue. There is absolutely no cover. Just as Dragon said, the beginning of the season will be hard for some animals but for the long term the recent burn will be beneficial. The Forest Service needs to do more of those in the choked areas.
I have found many box turtles dead after a fire but never lizards or snakes.I believe the snakes at least can always manage to get underground fast.they know every hole nearby and can fit in any of them.A turtle doesn't have time to dig in e3specially if away from mud.
I can't say exactly Chris, but it was around my wife's birthday, maybe March 22.
This morning from the road along the RR tracks behind the Carranza Memorial.
The little hill west of the parking lot.
What needles that didn't burn are dropping to the ground.
Take a drive along the tracks from Carranza Road to High Crossing.
They're putting up a new sign at Carranza road right in front of the memorial that reads "Closed Dusk to Dawn No Alcoholic Beverages". It's a 3 man, 2 pickup truck effort.
This morning from the road along the RR tracks behind the Carranza Memorial.
The little hill west of the parking lot.
What needles that didn't burn are dropping to the ground.
Take a drive along the tracks from Carranza Road to High Crossing.
They're putting up a new sign at Carranza road right in front of the memorial that reads "Closed Dusk to Dawn No Alcoholic Beverages". It's a 3 man, 2 pickup truck effort.
Gonna go out on a limb here....That looks like a disasterous example of a prescribed fire. Hard to tell the height of those trees but I suspect the end result like that should have been able to be avoided. That is simply not the desired result of a prescribed burn, period. Damn. Looks just like the bombing range fire from ~2005.
Pineland paddler- the natural burn cycle of the barrens would be frequent enough to prevent as much fuel buildup at the herbaceous level, understory and midstory that has now built up throughout so much of the barrens as a result of our fire suppresion. The result is fires that max out to the tops of the trees, burn the terminal bud, and kill the trees as a result. This appears to be the situation in the pics. I'm sure some will make it but that clearly got out of control.
I know that stretch of the tracks mentioned- it was totally variable re: amount of fuel buildup in the woods on both sides of the tracks along this stretch. Honestly it is hard to judge how manageable the fire could have just from those pics without knowing how that specific area pictured looked prior to the burn.
Pineland paddler- the natural burn cycle of the barrens would be frequent enough to prevent as much fuel buildup at the herbaceous level, understory and midstory that has now built up throughout so much of the barrens as a result of our fire suppresion. The result is fires that max out to the tops of the trees, burn the terminal bud, and kill the trees as a result. This appears to be the situation in the pics. I'm sure some will make it but that clearly got out of control.
I know that stretch of the tracks mentioned- it was totally variable re: amount of fuel buildup in the woods on both sides of the tracks along this stretch. Honestly it is hard to judge how manageable the fire could have just from those pics without knowing how that specific area pictured looked prior to the burn.