Oregon 450 sale at REI

[Spung-Man]

Boyd,

I bought the Montana 600 a year-and-a-half ago after consulting with you. Many thanks. Early on I developed a problem with screen-touch calibration and Garmin quickly replaced that unit (new model flaw). It's replacement has worked very well ever since.

The Montana is a rugged system with a long battery life, working well in field and in auto. It is useful in flight too, so you know what terrain you are looking at from 35,000 feet. The screen is just big enough for easy road navigation, yet fits in my pocket or in a dedicated belt pouch. The elevation option seems to be off by as much as ± ten-to-fifteen feet. This may not be a problem in the Rockies, but the error makes a big difference when trying to understand Pine Barrens geologic relationships.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Teegate]

The Oregon is a great choice if you want to pay the small fee to download aerial maps and have them in it. I find them invaluable. If not for that you may want to look at something else. If you just want a great GPS buy the old 60csx or other 60 series models. All the PBX member with GPS units have the 60 series.

 

[Boyd]

The 60sx has developed a certain "aura" over time. I have not looked myself, but others tell me that used models are selling for ridiculous prices. It was discontinued a couple years ago and you are not likely to find a new one anywhere.

Mark, quite a large number of Montana's had defective screens and needed replacement. Garmin quietly withdrew it from the market for awhile to sort this out. I got mine early but was lucky and have had no problems. All GPS devices have issues with elevation accuracy - see: https://support.garmin.com/support/...caseId={66f1b0a0-4cd6-11dc-4733-000000000000}

The Montana has a real altimeter/barometer however, but it must be calibrated in order to get accurate readings. I seem to get inconsistent results with this myself and have never really figured out what is going on, since it doesn't matter much for my kind of use.

The new Oregon 600 series is getting very positive feedback from early adopters (just started shipping) who say it is much more bug-free than other new Garmin models - see: http://gpstracklog.com/2013/05/garmin-oregon-650-review.html

 

[Teegate]

A few annoyances that I have found with my 650 that hopefully they have corrected in the new models.

They need to have a way to lock the fields on the main screen so they never change unless I want them to. I am constantly having to change mine back to what I had them set on. The screen lock feature to me is useless. Once I set them they should be locked unless I change them.

If I have photo's stored the GPS takes forever to load. Why can't it just start up and if I choose to view a photo then have them load?

It needs to display more than 528 feet. Why not make it 5280?

When marking a waypoint and choosing "Save and Edit" ..... included in the first two choices should be "Change Location" and "Change Name." "Change Name" already is so they got it half right. There is no doubt that everyone sits at home and inputs a few waypoints manually and obviously "Change Location" would be a top priority.

 

[Teegate]

The 60sx has developed a certain "aura" over time.

It developed because they are the best, and prices they still command prove that. If you want accuracy buy a 60.

 

[Boyd]

It may not be that simple unfortunately. Several years before it was discontinued, Garmin changed from the SiRFStar chipset to the MTK. It is the SiRF chips that people think are so great, but many of the 60csx's don't have these now. The only way to tell is to actually have the GPS in your hand and check what version software it runs. To further complicate things, if you have a problem with a 60csx and send it to Garmin for repair, they will replace it with a model that has the MTK chips. There is a lot of controversy on this topic, and it's hard to sort out. See this: http://forums.gpsreview.net/viewtopic.php?t=14007

If you think the MTK chips are just as good, you could get one of the old eTrex units (like the Vista Hcx) because they also use the MTK chips and they are cheaper.

Of course, buying a used 60csx has the usual risk of not knowing what kind of abuse it was subjected to, and since it's an old model its best years may already be in the past. There are a variety of things that fail over time on the 60csx, according to user reports. The USB port can go bad and there are various problems with the buttons over time. I still have mine, and although I rarely use it, will hang onto it. But as a community service, I will sell it to the first NJPB member who offers me $500 cash.

 

[Teegate]

But as a community service, I will sell it to the first NJPB member who offers me $500 cash.

If I lost my 60 I would pay that to replace it. I have no faith is the serious accuracy of my Oregon. None at all!

 

[Boyd]

I don't search for stones and don't do geocaching, so the differences don't seem very significant to me. If you use a gps to hike, drive, mark locations that interest you... it's not going to matter all that much. Some people feel the price premium on used 60csx models is more about it being a "fashion statement". I would have to say "caveat emptor" if you buy a used 60csx - seems very risky. Assuming that you can verify it really has the SiRF chips, it's a consumer electronics device and has a finite lifespan. If something fails, you will have to send it to Garmin and they will replace it with a model that has MTK chips. In fact, I suspect the time is coming soon when they will just say it isn't repairable and will offer you some other device at a discount as a replacement.

I recently did some testing of my 60csx and Montana (which has the same chips as the Oregon). I placed it stationary at a known location and recorded one point per second for 30 minutes. The center of the bullseye is the actual location and the rings are one meter apart. As you can see, the largest cluster of points is pretty close to the center, but it "wanders" very significantly.

This is the pattern from the Montana, recorded at the same time, sitting right next to the 60csx. It certainly has a wider spread of points. If you used waypoint averaging to record a location however, I think both units would perform similarly. But if you were searching for a stone, I can see how the 60csx might be better since the points form a tighter pattern.

 

[Teegate]

Maybe it is just my Oregon that is not reading properly. I have never had an opportunity to try another one in the same situation.

 

[Pan]

I was expecting to hear from you. Whenever I post about an Oregon sale, you ask the same question.

The Oregon 450 is a poor choice for a vehicle. Screen is small and not terribly bright.

Montana screen is bigger, brighter and works in both landscape and portrait orientation. Many advanced features to customize every aspect of its operation. Properly displays topo maps, which the Nuvi really doesn't. Can use satellite imagery and scanned USGS topo maps (Nuvi can't).

The new Oregon 600 series borrows many features from the Montana, but screen is smaller.

A new Android based "connected" version of the Montana - the Monterra - has been predicted for June.

Well, I'm going to have to get a new one sooner or later I think, though I've been accustomed to the Garmin 176 and 276C style for years now, but my 276 battery just went dead (tho it still works on external power) and I can't find my spare, and the buttons are becoming more unresponsive, and not just in cold weather.

I'm now thinking that it may be better to buy two GPS, one a Nuvi strictly for vehicle use - they come with free lifetime map updates and (I think) many more on road features - and another for out of vehicle use.

I've had Garmins way back to the model #2 but I'm not up to date on the various models and their features anymore. There are so many different Garmin models, plus the Tom Toms and Magellans.

 

[46er]

It would be nice if Garmin or Tom Tom or some other GPS maker could produce a handheld that could be plugged into a larger display head for use in a vehicle. Similar to plugging a laptop into a docking station. Revolutionary

 

[Boyd]

I doubt that we will see that. What would the "larger display head" be? You can get an Android tablet with internal GPS for $200, that's probably a better solution for most people. I would get one myself, but haven't seen any apps that I like yet on either iOS or Android.

So I am using an 8" Windows 7 based tablet running Garmin MobilePC - a program which they unfortunately discontinued a year or two ago. But it works really well with the maps I make and gives me a big screen. I'm using a Garmin GLO as the GPS receiver; it sends position data to the tablet 10 times per second.

I could use my Montana or 60csx to send data to the tablet if I wanted to, but that's a pretty clunky solution and would not offer any advantages.

 

[46er]

What would the "larger display head" be?

I have no idea, perhaps a stripped down NUVI. But that's for them to figure out; the technical as well as the financial and marketing, if any. But if they had something like that as an accessory, in the neighborhood of under $100, I'd consider it.

 

[Pan]

I doubt that we will see that. What would the "larger display head" be? You can get an Android tablet with internal GPS for $200, that's probably a better solution for most people. I would get one myself, but haven't seen any apps that I like yet on either iOS or Android.

Less. $180 for the 7" Samsung Android tablet at Costco, which is the one I have - but I'm totally confused about using it as a GPS. Doesn't it need to be online to function as a GPS? Mine won't acquire maps unless I'm online, but haven't owned it for long and know very little about it.

I've been ogling the latest Garmin Nuvi, the 3597.

http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-3597LM...8773563&sr=8-1&keywords=garmin+nuvi+3597lmthd

 

[Boyd]

You would need an app that has all its own maps and doesn't require a data connection, like this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navigon.navigator_checkout_us&hl=en.

If the tablet doesn't have an internal GPS you could use a bluetooth device like the GLO.

 

[Pan]

Oh yeah of course - duh - like downloading maps to my GPS so the maps are on the GPS and not just picked up online. Duh.

My Samsung 7" tablet has built in GPS and so does my little Samsung 4.2".

Any idea how poi's and road routing and saving waypoints etc. compares on those tablet mapping apps to Garmin? I'll have to do some research and learn something about it. I think I saw something in passing about Google maps having some new improvements and working good as a GPS. This is all new to me. I've been totally dependent on my Garmins for years now. I barely even know where I am without it.

 

[Boyd]

No idea, but have seen pretty positive comments about Navigon (which Garmin now owns). They make the StreetPilot app for iOS, which is basically like a Nuvi. No Android version, but some people feel that one is coming. Another school of thought is that they will just push Navigon as an app.

 

[Pan]

Navigon for Android. Lots of bad reviews.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navigon.navigator_checkout_us&hl=en

 

[Pan]

But lots of good reviews for Google maps - and it's free!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.maps

 

[Pan]

Hitch seems to be, as far as I can tell, that I can only download and save a small area of Google maps on to my tablet for offline use, so it wouldn't be useful for driving long distances, but it might be quite nice for, say, the NJPB.