ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton

dragoncjo

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Aug 12, 2005
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The reality is this was done because they don't have the manpower to patrol the areas. Cameras can't be used because they don't have money to buy them. The bottom line is they have no money to do anything, which is why volunteers are placing logs to block off trails. This will pass and we will all be riding the roads again. I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, i don't see this lasting for more then maybe next year. Having spent time out in wharton and needing assistance by park police or others there is utterly no shot any of this gets enforced for awhile, just utterly 0% chance. The blockades will get knocked down by the same people who wrecked the roads in the first place. Everything gets destroyed at some point in the barrens, the roads will again as well.
 

GSB

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Jul 28, 2015
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Could the signs along Carranza road have been placed there to keep ORVs from entering into that side of the Franklin Parker Preserve? Has anyone seen the signs elsewhere? We were at the RR tracks crossing Carranza road on Sunday (7/26) and saw the signs posted there.
 

Joseph Springer

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Jul 27, 2015
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Could the signs along Carranza road have been placed there to keep ORVs from entering into that side of the Franklin Parker Preserve? Has anyone seen the signs elsewhere? We were at the RR tracks crossing Carranza road on Sunday (7/26) and saw the signs posted there.
the parker preserve does not touch carranza road from what I remember.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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Mar 8, 2006
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The reality is this was done because they don't have the manpower to patrol the areas. .
They haven't had the manpower for years, From what I am reading and seeing only a small part of these lead to areas that are actually torn up by ORV misuse these are the ones that need closed as proven by Teegate's recent post and pics on 1/4 mile. The others I'm not understanding the posting. If the PPA and State call them non-essential and they lead to nowhere then why lean on the inability to patrol? I understand they are potential dump sites among other things but has there been an issue? I wouldn't count on this passing by and returning to normal anytime soon. I'm with GSB here, has there been any sightings of postings anywhere else? on the "Atco" side of 206? in Lebanon? Bass River? I plan on taking a long ride this weekend to some areas I have not been lately and reporting back, just wondering if anyone else has seen anything anywhere else?
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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Mar 8, 2006
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Could the signs along Carranza road have been placed there to keep ORVs from entering into that side of the Franklin Parker Preserve? Has anyone seen the signs elsewhere? We were at the RR tracks crossing Carranza road on Sunday (7/26) and saw the signs posted there.
Does Parker have an ORV problem? Might be a dumb question but I don't recall hearing anything about that at all?
 

Y-BUC-BILL

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Mar 9, 2007
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I received a message on my phone from an employee of the N.J.Fish and Wildlife.I contacted him Monday as I spent the weekend at the shore.I spent most of the time telling him why the public roads should not be signed off.
He obviously had no idea as to how many people use the Wharton Forest for many different activities.He also informed me that a map is in the process of being made identifying the roads to be closed.He also informed me as to having a public hearing.This gentleman from the State and my good friend " rednekf "were the only ones to contact me about this on going problem.It's very disappointing to send out e-mails to at least forty people in my address book and get only two response's..Contact the Congressmen and Women in your district and tell them how you feel.I am sure most of them have no idea as what is being done to OUR-FOREST
 
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Gibby

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Apr 4, 2011
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Does Parker have an ORV problem? Might be a dumb question but I don't recall hearing anything about that at all?
Parker has had problems in only a few small areas. Mostly along the tracks, a few areas of concern near Apple Pie Hill and in the northern sections. It was mostly local kids on quads. Parker's back roads are cabled off and difficult to get around.
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

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Parker has had problems in only a few small areas. Mostly along the tracks, a few areas of concern near Apple Pie Hill and in the northern sections. It was mostly local kids on quads. Parker's back roads are cabled off and difficult to get around.
Thanks Gibby, I guess i find it strange that Parker has not been infiltrated like Greenwood or their postings ignored like quarter mile. What to you think the difference is? Why do people abide by their signs and blockages and not the State's?
 

Gibby

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Thanks Gibby, I guess i find it strange that Parker has not been infiltrated like Greenwood or their postings ignored like quarter mile. What to you think the difference is? Why do people abide by their signs and blockages and not the State's?
The state is lazy with enforcement while the NJCF will react quickly to a problem nipping it in the bud.

Just recently, DragonCJO and myself came across a sensitive area that had been turned into a quad playground and after notifying certain individuals action was taken without hesitation.
 
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smoke_jumper

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They haven't had the manpower for years, From what I am reading and seeing only a small part of these lead to areas that are actually torn up by ORV misuse these are the ones that need closed as proven by Teegate's recent post and pics on 1/4 mile. The others I'm not understanding the posting. If the PPA and State call them non-essential and they lead to nowhere then why lean on the inability to patrol? I understand they are potential dump sites among other things but has there been an issue? I wouldn't count on this passing by and returning to normal anytime soon. I'm with GSB here, has there been any sightings of postings anywhere else? on the "Atco" side of 206? in Lebanon? Bass River? I plan on taking a long ride this weekend to some areas I have not been lately and reporting back, just wondering if anyone else has seen anything anywhere else?
So far I haven't seen any closures on the Atco side of 206. Except the ponds along Sandy Causeway which were posted in early spring. I only got out Sunday but covered from atco to Batsto. The only thing is there has been extensive road work on Sandy Causeway and as I went past I noticed work was done to Fleming Pike along the tracks heading to the sod farm.
 

Tracker Jim

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Dec 18, 2014
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Leeds Point NJ
"I'm with GSB here, has there been any sightings of postings anywhere else? on the "Atco" side of 206? in Lebanon? Bass River? I plan on taking a long ride this weekend to some areas I have not been lately and reporting back, just wondering if anyone else has seen anything anywhere else?[/QUOTE]"

On Sunday I drove to Martha by way of Martha Road off of Rt. 679 and saw no trail closings.
 

Ben Ruset

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Oct 12, 2004
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This will pass and we will all be riding the roads again. I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, i don't see this lasting for more then maybe next year. Having spent time out in wharton and needing assistance by park police or others there is utterly no shot any of this gets enforced for awhile, just utterly 0% chance. The blockades will get knocked down by the same people who wrecked the roads in the first place. Everything gets destroyed at some point in the barrens, the roads will again as well.
I don't share your hope that this will just blow over.

Once the signs are gone they'll still be able to harass, or at least ticket you, by the simple fact that the closed roads are marked on the map.

Besides that, the huge issue here is that this is going on behind our backs. Zero transparency. There's still no announcement of the closings on the NJ DEP website, Wharton State Forest website, NJ Fish & Wildlife site, or the PPA site.
 

Joseph Springer

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Jul 27, 2015
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I don't share your hope that this will just blow over.

Once the signs are gone they'll still be able to harass, or at least ticket you, by the simple fact that the closed roads are marked on the map.

Besides that, the huge issue here is that this is going on behind our backs. Zero transparency. There's still no announcement of the closings on the NJ DEP website, Wharton State Forest website, NJ Fish & Wildlife site, or the PPA site.
The Christie admin empaneled a blue ribbon committee to deal with this sort of treatment. The DEP totally ignores the Christie Admin. Read this document http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news/reports/Environmental Protection.pdf
 

Ben Ruset

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I think that was mostly because Christie wasn't getting the DEP to turn as much of a blind eye towards pollution (at least in North Jersey) as he would like.
 

SuperChooch

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Aug 26, 2011
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Looks like this is starting to get some legs on social media:

This thread- 231 comments, 8824 views

Facebook:

When the info gets posted on when the "public forums" are going to be held, we need to make sure we cross post this back on these sites.

I talked to the office of my state senator today and the staff member I spoke to was very friendly and helpful. She gave me the following advice:
  • Only contact your Senator and Assemblymen. They do not consider input that is not from their constituents.
  • I asked how we could best communicate to them. She said email is fine and a petition is fine as well, but she said anyone who signs a paper petition must include their first and last name, full address and email address or else it doesn't "count". I plan to bring paper copy to David's meeting this Sunday.
  • She said i could request a meeting to help make sure we working most effectively with them. She gave me an email address to request a meeting, I'll see if I can meet with them. (I'm in the 9th District)
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
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Atco, NJ
The reality is this was done because they don't have the manpower to patrol the areas. Cameras can't be used because they don't have money to buy them. The bottom line is they have no money to do anything, which is why volunteers are placing logs to block off trails. This will pass and we will all be riding the roads again. I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, i don't see this lasting for more then maybe next year. Having spent time out in wharton and needing assistance by park police or others there is utterly no shot any of this gets enforced for awhile, just utterly 0% chance. The blockades will get knocked down by the same people who wrecked the roads in the first place. Everything gets destroyed at some point in the barrens, the roads will again as well.
While I agree with you that they have little chance of enforcing such a large sweeping area of closures. They are still closed. This past weekend I came up on a road that was posted and had to alter my route. There were very fresh tracks that simply went around the sign and continued on. Without enforcement these signs only deter law abiding people who enjoy the woods. The people destroying the woods now have have these areas all to themselves. To top it off I had to go around, over or under no less the 8 downed trees on the roads left open. These are from the storm over a month ago. The volunteers can moved downed trees to block roads but apparently can't help clearing them.
 

Boyd

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I don't share your hope that this will just blow over.
We may get some relief in the near term, but I am rather pessimistic about the big picture. 237 posts in this thread but I only count about 32 people participating (and a couple of them are in favor of the closings). Sad to say, this looks a lot like "preaching to the choir".

The people who support this are convinced they are protecting the environment and helping society. Meanwhile those of us who oppose are pretty much just saying "we want to be able go there". So the proponents probably just view us as selfish. And all of this is set against the backdrop of an administration that thinks the internal combustion engine is evil and has stated they want to break up America's love affair with the car. Some people are predicting that most "millenials" won't even own cars in a few years: http://www.businessinsider.com/lyft-president-most-millennials-wont-own-car-in-five-years-2015-7

Your self-driving Google Car (or Apple Car?) is not going to take you down any of these roads. Another idea that is gaining traction is taxing people based on the number of miles they drive (VMD or Vehicle Miles Driven) using an internal GPS. If this happens, then what's next? The government could tax you at a higher rate for driving on these roads with the excuse that the money is needed to patrol and maintain them. Or maybe they will just forbid you from going there at all… I mean, there is really no reason to waste fuel on such unnecessary travel.

I sure hope I'm wrong. I don't think anything will change much in the short term, but the world will be a much different place when my Granddaughter's generation is running things.
 
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Broke Jeep Joe

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Mar 8, 2006
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We may get some relief in the near term, but I am rather pessimistic about the big picture. 237 posts in this thread but I only count about 32 people participating (and a couple of them are in favor of the closings). Sad to say, this looks a lot like "preaching to the choir".

The people who support this are convinced they are protecting the environment and helping society. Meanwhile those of us who oppose are pretty much just saying "we want to be able go there". So the proponents probably just view us as selfish. And all of this is set against the backdrop of an administration that thinks the internal combustion engine is evil and has stated they want to break up America's love affair with the car. Some people are predicting that most "millenials" won't even own cars in a few years: http://www.businessinsider.com/lyft-president-most-millennials-wont-own-car-in-five-years-2015-7

Your self-driving Google Car (or Apple Car?) is not going to take you down any of these roads. Another idea that is gaining traction is taxing people based on the number of miles they drive (VMD or Vehicle Miles Driven) using an internal GPS. If this happens, then what's next? The government could tax you at a higher rate for driving on these roads with the excuse that the money is needed to patrol and maintain them. Or maybe they will just forbid you from going there at all… I mean, there is really no reason to waste fuel on such unnecessary travel.

I sure hope I'm wrong. I don't think anything will change much in the short term, but the world will be a much different place when my Granddaughter's generation is running things.
I dont see it as preaching to the chior Boyd, given the lack of notification and transparency and just out and out sneakyness of this ordeal I think the folks here are doing a good bit in their own respects, 'chooch put together an excellent contact list and letter, Dave is holding a discussion with the 4x4 crowd for awareness, Guy has photo documented hopeful recovery of a highly damaged area, plus said the PPA is full of $hit! I'll speak for myself and have contacted my district politicians, mayor and have called and sent a letter to the govorner for what good it may do. So i see action being taken to a point, dont get me wrong but what would you suggest we do further?