ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton

Pinesbucks

Explorer
Apr 15, 2013
295
111
I have reached out to the NJ outdoor alliance and also to NJ federated sportsman. Time to start getting a whole lot of people involved and to contact DEP head Bob Martin and even Chris Christie.
 

Duckncover

New Member
Aug 4, 2015
3
1
56
Hainesport
Just a few things I was thinking.
1. If the roads begin to go back to "Nature" how will the FFS be able to get to a fire before it wipes a town like Medford or Indian Mills off the map?
2. When Hunting season rolls around, or even on a holiday weekend where is everyone going to park and is it safe for the hunters and others to be so concentrated around the now limited roads?
3. I hope they have invested in a good search and rescure team because alot of people are going to get lost, and maybe not found until its too late.
4. Are they going to stop cutting all the fire breaks that make the forest cry?
5. Can you hunt in the "natural areas"?
6. Why did they close so many MAIN roads like Hampton rd from High Crossing
7. I have hunted the High Crossing area for 35 years I know the area down to the square yard and now I'm not even sure where I can park.
8. The fact that Mr Auermuller did this behind closed doors and no public hearing says Mr Auermuller fells that this is the Kings land and the little people should stay away and may not hunt the Kings game on the Kings land. Maybe he should hire some "Gamekeepers"
9. This is just the tip of the Iceburg.
10. Was the FFS consulted in the plan? It should be Mr Auermullers job to close the cuts made buy the FFS in there effort to keep us safe so they do not become roads. What has he been doing for the last few years? The roads where left in dissrepair to serve his agenda.
 
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woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,341
327
Near Mt. Misery
Take a ride down Sandy Causeway. Get a feeling for the new look of the roads. It doesn't feel like preservation at all. Two cars wide and mowed shoulders. Oh yea trucked in clay and stone. It looks and feels about as natural as driving through the safari in Great Adventure They did leave enough sugar sand in spots for a car to get stuck though. Maybe thats the next step, tram cars giving tours.
Sandy Causeway is the quintessential sugar sand road in the pines. They trucked gravel and fill in there.....from out of state perhaps? What the hell is going on??!!!!
 
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mudboy dave

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
950
19
42
atco
opentrailsnj.org
Well guys , I'm trying. Nbc10 didn't really please me today leaving alot of my interview off the air , which I found to be the most important parts. I hope to work with yall in the near future.
 

Tracker Jim

Scout
Dec 18, 2014
98
83
Leeds Point NJ
The PPA is using this as an example as to why they need to close certain trails, they are calling them "vernal pools" https://www.facebook.com/Pinelands/posts/10153452787175731:0

Burnt Mill Road 3.jpg

Just to be clear, the above photo is NOT a vernal pool. A vernal pool is essentially a spung - a land feature created during the last ice-age, not a recent man made depression. The folks behind the above photo, defining it as a vernal pond is certainly stretching the truth to fit their agenda. If this is their definition of a vernal pool, then every newly created mud puddle in any trail that holds water at certain times of the year, but is dry at others a vernal pool. These simple puddles exist on EVERY pine barrens road. .....We both have a common goal, which is to keep those who don't love the pines out. Those who just use her, and hurt her, and ride her just for their carnal pleasure. but you preservationists and us conservationists explorers, botanists, historians, geologists, entomologists, folklorists, herpetologists, ornithologists, lovers of the Pines etc. are one. We want the same things. But if you hope to retain any credibility and respect with us, especially after the questionable way you have conducted your selves in this trail closing campaign, you cannot try to pass these lies by us without being called out on it, and further eroding your credibility. Apparently this is their definition of a "vernal pool"...

Burnt Mill Road.jpg
Burnt Mill Road 2.jpg
 
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Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,706
8,311
Well guys , I'm trying. Nbc10 didn't really please me today leaving alot of my interview off the air , which I found to be the most important parts. I hope to work with yall in the near future.


I guess the trick is to tell them only what you think is important so that is all they can add to the video. If you say too much they can pick and choose.
 
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Greg OBrien

Scout
Mar 22, 2011
39
25
I guess the trick is to tell them only what you think is important so that is all they can add to the video. If you say too much they can pick and choose.

That is exactly how it works.

People that interview well, speak in talking points with every statement being an individual sound bite that could stand on its own.

If you are someone that tells the full story or likes to structure arguements with lines of logic, they will eat you alive (ask me how I know ;))

That said, Channel 10 could've railroaded the interview far worse than that... that is about as gentle as they come for getting the work over edit.

Anyone that has basic knowledge of the pine barrens and needs to be involved in this arguement will be able to read between the lines and form their own opinion. The rest of the public will blink twice and go back to their TV dinner.
 
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smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,534
1,066
Atco, NJ
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/320815561.html

Nice job! It's going to be an uphill battle for us as they have a very polished message & they present it in a way with which it is hard to disagree. I think you made a valid counter to the PPA's message even if they did edit some out.

Putting holes in their how they are misleading the public is the best way. Like their "vernal pool". The next is finding out where the FFS truck got stuck. My best guess would be on E Stokes Road during the Atsion Fire this past spring. How does closing that road help fire suppression? If the hole was so critical why wasn't it temporarily fixed during the fire. If simply closing these roads helps fire suppression and ORV abuse we need to keep asking HOW?
 
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smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,534
1,066
Atco, NJ
If anyone knows someone that lives in Atco and backs up to the power lines they should be contacted and interviewed. The road that runs practically through their back yards is open instead of the one on the other side. I'm sure they haven't been asked or even advised of the additional traffic going through their yards.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,706
8,311
So has everyone written their representatives? I am about to write my sister-in-law and ask her to drop her PPA subscription. I told my wife not to renew.
 
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smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,534
1,066
Atco, NJ
So has everyone written their representatives? I am about to write my sister-in-law and ask her to drop her PPA subscription. I told my wife not to renew.

Guy. I have written my representative. I'm on the fence on how to feel here. I support most of what the PPA does. But I'm so against these closures that I want to stand in front of their canoe rental with signs and handing out flyers. I could think of a lot of things I'd rather be doing but deep inside I feel that's the only thing that can be done to get our voice heard. The PPA has its blinders on so bad on this topic that it literally can't see the forest through the trees.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,706
8,311
I have heard others say about the same thing as you on the PPA.
 

Greg OBrien

Scout
Mar 22, 2011
39
25
This is what frequently happens when non-profits start to employ and support a full staff. Group-think. There always needs to be more, a new agenda item, a next big win, and they lose memory of their roots and purpose.


Regarding the actual M.A.P., a road listed at 'Rider Switch' is listed as remaining open. It dead ends into the tracks from Hampton Furnace. I have never heard it called by that particular name? Does anyone know it's origin?
 

Tracker Jim

Scout
Dec 18, 2014
98
83
Leeds Point NJ
The road is named for Andrew Jackson Rider. Rider owned the Hampton Cranberry Park in partnership with Charles W. Wilkerson, dating back to around 1880. This road lead from the bog to the railroad where there was a station where cranberries were loaded and labor transported.

Rider was a really big deal. He was one of the founders of Rider University, and it's first president. He was a leader in the early cranberry industry. He had bogs all over the area. The Queen of England called him the Cranberry King of New Jersey after introducing the berry to that country.
This is what frequently happens when non-profits start to employ and support a full staff. Group-think. There always needs to be more, a new agenda item, a next big win, and they lose memory of their roots and purpose.


Regarding the actual M.A.P., a road listed at 'Rider Switch' is listed as remaining open. It dead ends into the tracks from Hampton Furnace. I have never heard it called by that particular name? Does anyone know it's origin?
 

SuperChooch

Explorer
Aug 26, 2011
391
428
47
This is what frequently happens when non-profits start to employ and support a full staff. Group-think. There always needs to be more, a new agenda item, a next big win, and they lose memory of their roots and purpose.


Regarding the actual M.A.P., a road listed at 'Rider Switch' is listed as remaining open. It dead ends into the tracks from Hampton Furnace. I have never heard it called by that particular name? Does anyone know it's origin?

So, it is at least within the realm of possibility that it being open has something to do with an exchange I had with Rob. (When he was still responding to me. ;-) ) before the map was released, I asked him about the plans for this road specifically, explaining that that it provided access for a lesser know, short kayak route between Hampton Furnace and Hampton Station. My kids love that bridge and that little route so I asked very nicely that it not be closed.
 
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Greg OBrien

Scout
Mar 22, 2011
39
25
Thanks guys! I always forget how much I miss this site.

I was just doing some searching and came up with the stories of coal transport from Hampton to the Tracks. Also turned up the story of the Rider Payroll Robbery, one of the more exciting stories I've come across in a while!

Interesting stuff... just can't recall that name on a map before now.
 
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