ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton

Teegate

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I called them once when I saw a known turtle thief, and after explaining that the man at the DEP asked me if I saw him stealing them. I said no that I was just letting him know the man was on site. He then told me he could not help me. I called back 5 minutes later and another man seemed really interested and the known thief was stopped a few hours later with no turtles in his vehicle.
 

Teegate

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Nothing. It passed in front of me heading towards Constable Bridge and the man looked like he was on a mission. I was thinking it may have been someone looking for ways to get around road blocks.
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
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We saw a lot of people out there too. My wife asked if I thought it was because of everything that was going on. I didn't think it was, I think it was just a great weekend to be outside. It would have been nicer if I didnt have my agenda but it was still a great weekend.
 

smoke_jumper

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The amount of vitriol and hyperbole spewing all over the internet from both sides of this argument is sickening.

If people can't calm down, educate themselves with the facts, and speak rationally then this problem will never be solved.
Maybe us should be settled over a friendly game of Lawn Darts:p
 

smoke_jumper

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This is one of the spots I stopped at. Saturday I took a broom to the road just behind this sign on Saturday morning. This is taken Sunday at 4:00. The puddle is just behind this sign. You can't even tell where I cleared. This is a spot clearly marked and stopped nobody but me. How is closing these roads helping the pines if people don't listen. This is just one spot. If one location can't be enforced I ask everyone how can all these closures be enforced effectively. A targeted approach seems like a much better way.
 

46er

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Mar 24, 2004
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This is one of the spots I stopped at. Saturday I took a broom to the road just behind this sign on Saturday morning. This is taken Sunday at 4:00. The puddle is just behind this sign. You can't even tell where I cleared. This is a spot clearly marked and stopped nobody but me. How is closing these roads helping the pines if people don't listen. This is just one spot. If one location can't be enforced I ask everyone how can all these closures be enforced effectively. A targeted approach seems like a much better way.
One would think, at least I would, that there would be at least some enhanced SPP presence to drive home they are serious about this. All it says is a big 'AS YOU WERE' to the damage doer's.
 

Greg OBrien

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Mar 22, 2011
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As I see it, there is a long term quandary at play here. When you establish a zero tolerance/no compromise hard-liner policy (blanket placement of NMV signs on all small roads) that is hostile towards the established local community and then mix in spotty and inconsistent enforcement (SPP), you enter a dangerous social realm. Over time, this will easily result in a shift in attitude toward marginalizing rule of law in State Parks, which is much the opposite of the intention. If the SPP, Forestry, Fire, etc. are not on-board with or feel left out of this policy change, the effect is magnified. Furthermore, I would say it is highly likely that hunters and hunting clubs will stick to their traditional patterns this fall/winter and ignore all signs this fall en mass... many of their tree-stand locations and drives are based on years or even decades of successful hunts. They don't have the time or motivation to change.

Some of the tracks in smoke_jumpers picture MAY be the outlaws and low-lifes that are commonly credited with exploiting areas like 1/4 mile. However, as it stands to reason, a relevant and significant percentage of those tracks were likely left by other-wise law abiding citizens on a trail ride they have taken regularly for years... people that want nothing to do with 1/4 mile and such hot spots. In these cases, you're probably talking about groups of locals or regulars that are faced with an unfair choice. A choice that their friends, family, and even children might be actively taking part in.

When any policy results in regularly law abiding citizens feeling they are rightfully empowered in acts of civil disobedience... social relationships and government leadership heads into a dangerous death spiral.

I'm NOT encouraging or supporting any individual actions. I have yet to drive around any of these signs, I haven't yet had a reason to. I am merely pointing out the dangerous and potential hazardous side-effects of such sloppy policy.
 
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smoke_jumper

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Ok, I posted these pictures not to place blame but just to prove a point. With that said many of the tracks seemed to target the sign and take it out, but that's not the point. I went on Facebook today and saw sweeping generalizations on both sides. It seems it's a for or against arguement. I'm not sure why. If you're for it then how do you think this is going to solve the problem. They still go there.
If you against it then you're saying there's not a problem.
It's not that simple.
 
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Teegate

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I don't see how they can expect that sign to stay there. It's destiny is ensured.
 

PINEY WARDEN

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Jan 13, 2012
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UGH! My eyes are bleeding. How much more can be possibly talked about on this subject? The same comments over and over and over day after day. Please someone post a new Thread for a change to make this site a bit more positive like it use to be! I even believe BobPBX would even agree with me on this subject!
 
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Gibby

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What is the legal process for road closure?

I found the administration code but what are the steps?

N.J.A.C. 7:2 State Park Service Code

7:2-2.3 Limitation or closing of land and water use The Director of the Division of Parks and Forestry or the Assistant Director of the Division for the State Park Service may limit or close to the public use, specific areas, lands, waters and facilities under its jurisdiction and control as part of a State Park whenever such action is deemed necessary for proper management and operation and/or in the best interest of health, safety and the general welfare of the public.
 

smoke_jumper

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Mar 5, 2012
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There absolutely is a problem. Driving in any pool or lowland has never been legal so I'm not sure how saying its illegal, again, and posting a sign is going to make a difference. Many people that go off-road can honestly say they don't do anything wrong. While this may be true many of them will admit they know somebody who doesn't follow the rules. If you don't do anything to help then your part of the problem. This is where we are at now. The PPA's name is being dragged through the mud and their supporters say off-roaders are hell bent on destroying every square inch of the pines. I hear the comparison to national parks all the time. I ask everyone, have you been to one? True, you can't drive every where, but you can't mountain bike any where you want or even hike off a trail. Nothing but a bunch of lemmings wether it's driving, biking or hiking. Is that what we want? In a few years when this plan fails,as it is set up to do, we are one step closer to just that.
 
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Ben Ruset

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UGH! My eyes are bleeding. How much more can be possibly talked about on this subject? The same comments over and over and over day after day. Please someone post a new Thread for a change to make this site a bit more positive like it use to be! I even believe BobPBX would even agree with me on this subject!
There are hundreds of other threads about the Pine Barrens that you can read here. I see new posts on other topics every day.

This site is still positive. It's just a serious topic of discussion right now. Trust me, there's a lot of other places that are taking a much more negative tone than the folks here. If you're not interested then don't read the thread.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
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There are hundreds of other threads about the Pine Barrens that you can read here. I see new posts on other topics every day.

This site is still positive. It's just a serious topic of discussion right now. Trust me, there's a lot of other places that are taking a much more negative tone than the folks here. If you're not interested then don't read the thread.
Other than the original press release, has anyone seen or heard of a response from the DEP or P&F regarding this? An actual response that can be attributed to someone in those areas, not a he said/she said.
 

smoke_jumper

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Mar 5, 2012
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The whole "this is what we are doing and we don't have to explain ourselves" attitude is frustrating to say the least. What little I see on face book seems ridiculous on both sides. All of these lies and half truths are crazy. They say exceptions will be made for people with disabilities but won't say how. We still have many questions. Even the brochure is vague saying that in some parts of the year even the roads are remaining open can't be traveled on due to puddles. The people who support the plan can't even say what they support because they claim they don't know anything about it. Calling your representative seems like they only way. Forcing them to answer to them is the only way. If you didn't sign the petition or write a letter I urge everyone to do so and pass it on.
 
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