Pine Barren Culture; Dead or Alive

[bobpbx]

Elizabeth Morgan, who passed away last year, was a friend of mine. She loved exploring as much as I did and knew a hell of a lot more than I did. She always smiled and always shared her knowledge. Here is a book commemorating her:

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=10011&pos=7

One of her diary pages in this book disturbed me, and made me think. This entry is undated as to year:

....."I told Merce Ridgeway I thought Mary Ann could get him a job at Sym Place. He said he and 38 others were planning to sell out and move to western W. Virginia. He says there is no way a clammer could survive here anymore and his music does not pay much. He told me about the shellfish of Barnegat Bay and blames politics for what has happened-no oysters and no scallops. Mussels killed by new paint on boats and too many boats now too. The old way of life on the Pines & Bay is dead."

Merce is a musician, his sister lived next door to me in Bamber. The part that disturbs me a bit is saying the way of life on the Pines is dead. I wonder, if you really love a place, does it die that way? Can you leave it that early, and is the culture really going, going, gone?

I feel a little "in and out". I knew many pineys, and now most are gone or live in the surrounding towns. Is it really over?

 

[Teegate]

Bob,

That link is wrong.

Here is the proper link.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=5
Guy

 

[bobpbx]

Thanks Guy...........fixed.

 

[woodjin]

Very interesting and thought provoking post. I am at a serious disadvantage to comment on such a thing due to the fact that I have such little personal history in the pines compared to yourself and some others on this forum. I am envious of the fact that you have had the opportunity to have known so many true pineys within your life time. I believe I have met only a couple bonafide pineys who could have passed the criteria for the term as it was applied during Becks' time.

But what truly defines the pine barren culture? Was it the original settlers? Was it the post revolutionary Hessians and tories? The iron furnace workers? The destitute sphagnum moss and berry collectors? Or the baymen? Or are all of these perfect representatives of pine barren culture spanning various time periods?

Any culture will be altered by changes in natural resources, economics, politics, or as we might be facing now, media (internet, tv) and transportation. The internet may be breaking down the isolation of the pine barren community from the rest of the world, but I think it does little in the way of breaking down the isolation the rest of the world retains for the pine barrens. As you know I work in the suburban areas to the west of the barrens, and many of the suburban residents still regard the barrens as "different". A "different" kind of people live there. When they find out I live here the say "what about all those pineys?", or "I can't believe it takes you over twenty minutes to get to the grocery store".

The modern pine barren native is different from the ones in the 30's or 40's, who were different from the ones of the early 1800's and so on down the line. Maybe you are thinking that this transition is more dramatic because you are witnessing it first hand. I would guess that as long as there is some element of seperation between the pine barren community and neighbors to the north, west and south there will always be a pine barrens culture, albeit, a different one from the preceeding generation.

That is my take on it. But then again, I grew up in Monmouth county, what the hell do I know.

Jeff

 

[Ben Ruset]

Died out? No. Changed? Yes.

Look, the people of South Jersey are truly a different breed. Unfortunately many have lost their connection to nature that they once had. We as a people don't need to rely on the woods for food, clothing, and shelter anymore. Bigger opportunities for money and personal advancement can be found a short drive down one of the major highways.

Saying that the way of life that existed in the Pines & Bay is gone is just like saying that the way of life of the 1950s is gone. It is, unfortunately, not very relevant in our 21st Century society anymore. Who has the life of Beaver Cleaver? Not anybody I knew growing up.

 

[wis bang]

The unique pine culture will adapt to modern 'pressure' while retaining is's natural elements because of the 'isolation' that remains in the area. When I read McPhee & other pinelands books, I saw the image of rural, natural, america similar to the descriptions my father relates about the Poconos & other remote places from his childhood in the thirties...Hardscrabble subsistance living.

We're all fortunate that the unique elements of the pines slowed the advance of development & like it or not, the pinelands commission helped preserve the areas not already under state ownership or control.

I remember growing up going to the Poconos. In the late 50's/early 60's I rode my tricycle on the blacktop road [wasn't blacktopped till '55] and you could hear the aproaching autos long before they arrived. Most of the side roads were still dirt & there was a recognizaeable population of 'natives'

40 years later the only true 'dirt' roads are in areas that are not suitable for development, mostly boardering and accessing large tracts of private land owned by hunting/fishing associations. Our camp is the first one in it's section of state forrest and development has crept closer & closer. Our neighbor is a 'native' who owns about 9 acres. There was a 37 acre tract behind him w/ a log cabin built as a hunting camp by his grandfather. It's now being developed.

There are still 'natives' though the 'real' log cabins are all gone. Our neighbor now lives in a double wide but I remember the 10 X 20 log cabin where his mother & her 11 siblings were raised. Their dad had them all pickin blueberries to use in his shine. Made it look like iodine according to my dad.

The 'New Yorkers' that have migrated to the developments tend to view the natives as white trash. How Sad!

Some 'natives' have responded by living up to the others expectations; the rest are hard working, hard hunting folks that I'd gladly associate with compared to the transplanted New Yorkers who make weird faces at any hunter they see as they drive by in their mini vans & Utes.


Explore it, hunt it but don't develope it!

 

[bobpbx]

But what truly defines the pine barren culture? Was it the original settlers? Was it the post revolutionary Hessians and tories? The iron furnace workers? The destitute sphagnum moss and berry collectors? Or the baymen? Or are all of these perfect representatives of pine barren culture spanning various time periods?

The modern pine barren native is different from the ones in the 30's or 40's, who were different from the ones of the early 1800's and so on down the line. Maybe you are thinking that this transition is more dramatic because you are witnessing it first hand. I would guess that as long as there is some element of seperation between the pine barren community and neighbors to the north, west and south there will always be a pine barrens culture, albeit, a different one from the preceeding generation.

That is my take on it. But then again, I grew up in Monmouth county, what the hell do I know. Jeff

Jeff, I wrote the following a long time ago, I think on another board. I have it on a word document:

If you were asked; "are you a Piney"?, how would you respond? Would you
think it fits, would you wear the name well, and with pride? Would you run and hide?

What is the origin of Piney? My own opinion is that is started as a word of
ridicule, something started by (so-called) city folk to give a name to the people who lived in the pines and, because they did live there, were looked down upon.

How old is the term? Does it go back beyond, say, 1900? Something tells me
no, because back then, it was not so important what you did here or where you lived, but what country you immigrated from.

What is the definition of Piney? Oh boy, there's a topic for debate. Is it
someone who was born in the pines? Is it more than that? Did you not only
have to be born in the pines, but did your parents have to make a living from
the pines? What kind of living; moss, charcaol, berries, or pine cones? What
percentage of income from those professions was required? Could you also
work during the week for, say, the town of Medford in the Public Works
Department? If you moved to the "city" prior to your 7th birthday, did you lose
the right to be labeled a Piney?

Or is it only that you had to "live" in the pines in order to be branded a Piney?
Here comes another debate: Where did your home have to be? What if it was
in Jackson, right next to Colliers Mills. This is now the most northern extension
of the Pines (or is that another source of argument). I'll bet most people who
live in Jackson would loathe to be called a Piney.

What about that other moniker of the area; the Bayman, the man who makes
his living from the bay? If you lived along the Mullica, at what point
downstream did you pass from being a Piney to a Bayman? Was it the route 9
bridge, or the Parkway bridge? Could you conceivably be called both Piney and
Bayman?

Is the term dated? Is it less used these days? I think so, but not because
people want to avoid it. There are so many people living in the pines in the
growth towns that it has been watered down, and not used much. Then to,
access to the media such as TV and the internet has ended most isolation from the outside world.

From my perspective, I am not a Piney, just someone who has a lot of respect
for the Pines. I was born in North Jersey, although I have spent about 30 years living in various towns in the Pines.

How about you, are you a Piney? If so, why do you come to that conclusion?

===end===

Jeff, the only person I knew of on this board that I thought was an honest to goodness Piney was Sure-Sue, who has not been on in about 8 months. I really liked her. She lived in Friendship, may have even been born there. She had great stories to tell of growing up there.

 

[bobpbx]

In fact, here is something I find strange. I don't see anyone on this board who claims to make a living from the pines, be it berries, canoe livery, etc. They are out there, but for them, life is different. No internet I guess.

I wonder what they think of us?

 

[Teegate]

In fact, here is something I find strange. I don't see anyone on this board who claims to make a living from the pines, be it berries, canoe livery, etc. They are out there, but for them, life is different. No internet I guess.

I wonder what they think of us?

Bob,

The times have changed so much that they are no different than any of us. You speak of Sue as a Piney and she is or was on the Internet. Bill Wasovwich is much older than her and if he is still around he would be more of a piney and he looks like he could be anyones uncle or Grandfather.

The photo of Fred Browns kitchen in the 1974 National Geographic looks like any other kitchen you would find on a back road in Vermont, complete with A&P milk, pancake syrup out of a plastic or glass container, etc, etc. A true piney would be getting his syrup from a tree, and his milk from a cow. Times have changed and they have changed with it, and the piney ways are dead. To find a true piney you have to visit where they all congregate...... Pleasant Mills, Reevestown, Ten Mile Hollow, and anywhere else where someone else has written down their name.

Guy

 

[bobpbx]

Bob,

The times have changed so much that they are no different than any of us. You speak of Sue as a Piney and she is or was on the Internet. Bill Wasovwich is much older than her and if he is still around he would be more of a piney and he looks like he could be anyones uncle or Grandfather.

The photo of Fred Browns kitchen in the 1974 National Geographic looks like any other kitchen you would find on a back road in Vermont, complete with A&P milk, pancake syrup out of a plastic or glass container, etc, etc. A true piney would be getting his syrup from a tree, and his milk from a cow. Times have changed and they have changed with it, and the piney ways are dead. To find a true piney you have to visit where they all congregate...... Pleasant Mills, Reevestown, Ten Mile Hollow, and anywhere else where someone else has written down their name.

Guy

Anywhere....where someone has written down their name.

Good one Guy........

PS: remember where this is written?....

"Come young and old as you pass by,
As you are now, so once was I,
As I am now, so you shall be,
Prepare for death, and follow me."

 

[Teegate]

PS: remember where this is written?....

"Come young and old as you pass by,
As you are now, so once was I,
As I am now, so you shall be,
Prepare for death, and follow me."

No.....

Guy

 

[Ben Ruset]

Anywhere....where someone has written down their name.

Good one Guy........

PS: remember where this is written?....

"Come young and old as you pass by,
As you are now, so once was I,
As I am now, so you shall be,
Prepare for death, and follow me."

Atsion?

I know for a fact that there is a grave in Smithville (by Pomona, not the other one in the Midlands) that has the same last three lines.

Evidently is was a pretty popular saying in Victorian times.

 

[bobpbx]

Atsion?

I know for a fact that there is a grave in Smithville (by Pomona, not the other one in the Midlands) that has the same last three lines.

Evidently is was a pretty popular saying in Victorian times.

Yes, that little church at Atsion........

 

[woodjin]

To best of my knowledge, the term piney developed after the bog iron, glass and paper industries collasped in the mid and late 1800s. The people remaining afterward found subsistence from the woods itself, and consequently, alienated themselves from cilvalization as it was known to the west and north and south. It is my understanding that the term was applied to these people to seperate them from the general population. Their reclusiveness and destitution, and even falsified allegations of incest and degenercy made the term very derogatory.

Under the original meaning of the term, most of the true pineys would have to be gone now, although several generations must have existed through out this time period of isolation and destitution. Furthermore, if it is possible to be a piney by blood relation, there would have to still be some pure breeds out there.

In my opinion, I think piney can be applied to anyone native to the pine barrens and who lives off the pine barrens. However, this is a personal classification and I recognize the "true" pineys as people who had far, far more isolation that their modern day equilvalents.

Growing up in central jersey, I would say that the term piney still carries with it negitive implications. I state this with a great deal of certainty. I actually kind of like that fact because it helps to maintain seperation for the pine barrens culture. Kind of strange I guess but I would like to see the pine barrens remain mysterious for the rest of the world.

To answer your question; no I do not consider myself a piney. I just don't fit the criteria. But I do have a deep respect and interest for the culture. Sorry about all the spelling errors (is there a spell check on this forum). If you'll exuse me now I have to go collect sphagnum moss and suck syrup out of a hole in a maple tree.

Jeff

 

[bobpbx]

If you'll exuse me now I have to go collect sphagnum moss and suck syrup out of a hole in a maple tree. Jeff

LOL!

How about sucking raw oyster meat down while its in the shell?

 

[woodjin]

That's the spirit!!

 

[Pan]

I am rereading John McPhee's great book again. It was written just a year or two before i first started driving down the Jersey Turnpike with my backpacking and camping gear to explore that extraordinary place in the world. This thread is eleven years old. What are the current thoughts on the matter?

 

[Jon Holcombe]

I am rereading John McPhee's great book again. It was written just a year or two before i first started driving down the Jersey Turnpike with my backpacking and camping gear to explore that extraordinary place in the world. This thread is eleven years old. What are the current thoughts on the matter?

I've lived in Medford Lakes and then Medford for 28 years, but only in the last couple years have I begun to really explore Wharton Forest. I read the McPhee book twice and have taken great pleasure in visiting places named in the book. When I was a kid in Absecon I thought the Pine Barrens was Batsto and the Batona Trail. With the expert help of the men on this forum I've started taking photos deep in the bogs of Friendship and Deep Run and I am looking forward to exploring far more extensively in the coming years. My ultimate goal is to document all of the great and hidden places of the Pinelands and South Jersey. I thought the Pine Barrens was scrub pine and sand, but it is so much more, with great natural beauty. You just have to look for it. I would be honored to be considered a neo-piney.

 

[h2ochild]

I have lived the better part of my life in the Bass River area, from 1974 on. I'm a third generation baymen and knew some of the local pineys in Bass River, Tuckerton, Lowerbank, and Green Bank. The dying off of the oysters,and scarcity of clams by the late 70's made all but the most hardy, leave those industries. The boatworks, casinos, and construction trades absorbed some, if not most, of their children. Taxes: income and property ...also spelled the end for many.

The lack of economic opportunities in traditional livlihoods eg.. Cranberry scooping,blueberry picking,pine coning,spaghnum gathering, salt haying, wood cutting,clamming,net fishing in the bays,trapping, all have been curtailed by laws, become uneconomical, or become non existent. Most of the old timers I knew who did these things, well... they have moved away or passed.

The building of the Baymen's Museum in my mind, was the final chapter in a way of life. At least it is being remembered.

Today what remains are the accents..."I still need to get a battree for the truck,somabitch needs a raadiater soon too,got a bit of a leak into her,and her tars ain't got much tred"
The people of today are trying to keep the flavor of the pines, it's beauty and wildness. Change is constant. The past can only be remembered...

 

[jburd641]

This thread, like so many others here, is a microcosm of Pineys and most every other culture. It started off as one thing and evolved, but in the end, it's still the same thread, it just keeps adjusting.