Pine Barrens community, nonprofit at odds over use of land

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,332
2,023
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
Bob, Your on record as being anti Forest Service and anti cranberry farm. Both, cranberry farming in particular have existed long before you happened along. The Pine barrens seemed to survive just fine despite when they were really raped and pillaged in the 1800 & 1900's.
My comment is just to confirm your authority to dictate just what is and isn't good for the Pines.
You are correct regarding my disapproval of the Forest Service's actions in digging and bulldozing new fire trails and roads. Unfortunately, that is just personal opinion, I have no authority. But you are incorrect if you think I don't appreciate any actions they take during a fire to protect lives and property.

Where did you get the idea I am against cranberry farmers? In my opinion, they are good stewards of the land, from what I have seen. Here is what I do think about though; If we go back 100 years, it would have been great to keep the river systems as wild as possible, while still having farms off to the side somehow.
 
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cjage

New Member
Sep 15, 2008
2
2
3
As a staff member of NJCF that worked long and hard to purchase the Parker Preserve and then open it up to the public, it is always great to see people passionate about that property and our work in general. I do, however, want to clarify one thing. Woodland Township does receive $486,914 annually in state PILOT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) funds for the Franklin Parker Preserve and the other preserved state lands within the township. (That figure comes from the township's 2014 municipal budget.) NJCF is a vocal supporter of that program and, in partnership with others, were able to keep that program in place when it was under threat recently.

In the future, if anyone ever has any questions about NJCF, its properties or policies, feel free to contact us at 908-234-1225 or even me (Chris) directly at chris@njconservation.org.
 
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1Jerseydevil

Explorer
Feb 14, 2009
365
101
43
Bob, this is all off topic and is pointless to continue. I just notice how you take glee in posting pictures from 1930 to present showing changes. Point of fact, look at Bamber then and now, I don't see you complaining. I'm not affiliated with the FFS and don't know as much as I'd like but think I understand plow lines. I don't see you complaining about all the new and "improved" woods roads that allow YOU access to the Pines. To me these are a scar and damaging, not the plow lines. I also didn't care for the comments about Haines and Lee brothers, statements without facts.
BTW, Forked River, 1950, you?
 

CurMUDgeon

Scout
Apr 30, 2010
74
20
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Where needed.
I don't see you complaining about all the new and "improved" woods roads that allow YOU access to the Pines. To me these are a scar and damaging said:
Can you expand and give some details on these new and improved woods roads?

I no longer own a 4WD vehicle and sometimes like to take out of state guests into the Pines to show them around.
Manahawkin, 1955 in case you were wondering...
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,332
2,023
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
Bob, this is all off topic and is pointless to continue. I just notice how you take glee in posting pictures from 1930 to present showing changes. Point of fact, look at Bamber then and now, I don't see you complaining. I'm not affiliated with the FFS and don't know as much as I'd like but think I understand plow lines. I don't see you complaining about all the new and "improved" woods roads that allow YOU access to the Pines. To me these are a scar and damaging, not the plow lines. I also didn't care for the comments about Haines and Lee brothers, statements without facts.
BTW, Forked River, 1950, you?
I don't claim to be a piney, I never did. A piney is hard to define. But I've lived here long enough to call the pines my home base and to speak about them. I lived in Hampton Lakes from 1961 to 1963. I lived in Presidential Lakes or Browns Mills from 1966 to 1980, in Lakehurst from 1981 until mid 1982, and I've lived the last 33 years in Bamber. I was born in Perth Amboy in 1954.

You know darn well that there is a vast gulf between the two actions we discussed; hunting and riding an ATV wherever you damn well please, or conversely, knocking politely on their doors and asking for permission (all humble-like). My concern is the first one, and that is what I meant. You can't just do that on their property, and they too have quite a few restrictions even if permission was received.

I'll go further to say that I really love it at the Franklin Parker Preserve. It's one place I can go and not have to hear or see the ATV's or trucks. It's like another world out there. Everyone is welcome within reason. You can hike, hunt, fish, watch birds, botanize, or just get away from it all. It's good for the soul. You just cannot ride vehicles out there unless you are doing some sort of research.

By the way. I wrote to Mr. Haines in 1999 asking permission for PBX to hike across his land up near the Pope Branch. He said he would like to accommodate us, but that I needed to provide proof of liability insurance for our group. Now, I don't blame him for that, he is just doing what he has to do to protect his interests. I am just pointing out that any landowner takes precautions and has some restrictions. The New Jersey Conservation Foundation is no exception.
 
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dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,353
94
1,028
38
camden county
This is all noise from the mayor who probably has some personal beef. NJCF has done a lot with the land, you would struggle to find a better steward of their land then them. They are also a group willing to work with anyone who has issues or has ideas, from my personal experience. People are always going to find something to whine and complain about, most that complain don't have a clue and should just be ignored. The people working out there have a lot of experience in biology and forestry and from what I can see are actively doing what is best long term for the land.
 
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Gibby

Piney
Apr 4, 2011
1,580
377
1,063
Trenton
What the mayor should be focused on and embracing is the fact that the Pine Barrens village of Chatsworth will more than likely always possess the charming and unique characteristics of a village because of Parker Preserve. The NJCF land surrounds most of the village and because of this there is little chance that there will be large growth that has happened in other areas. If I were mayor I would embrace just that but what do I know, I just appreciate the area for what it has to offer.
 
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1Jerseydevil

Explorer
Feb 14, 2009
365
101
43
Bob, as mentioned it's pointless to continue and I'm finished. I don't claim to be a Piney, just a native of the area.
It just so happens I had enough of your bashing, FFS, posting time line photo's of then and now of cranberry farms and now the mayor of Chatsworth. For the record I don't know the man or the reasons behind his issues and I have to think neither do you. Have any of you talked to the man before bashing him?
As for NJCF....
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,332
2,023
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
For the record I don't know the man or the reasons behind his issues and I have to think neither do you. Have any of you talked to the man before bashing him? As for NJCF....
Reading the article gave me a good impression of his motives. He and his buddies hate the NJCF and want freedom to do what they want on the preserve. What is particularly galling to me is that his township wants to assess fines on NJCF for "not eliminating "blighting conditions" and the "existence of fire hazards".

Blight (def.): A condition or result of harmful or ruinous action,

Please, give me a break here. It sounds to me like he wants to punish the NJCF for some reason.

Enlighten me JD. What beef do you have with the NJCF?
 
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Gibby

Piney
Apr 4, 2011
1,580
377
1,063
Trenton
Chatsworth is small community with no real issues, so in order for the mayor to justify his position he has to focus his energy on something. What problems does the village have? The lack of high speed internet?

I always follow the money and the friendships to find answers to my questions about the motives of politicians. More than likely someone is whispering in his ear.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,464
1,915
1,093
Coastal NJ
Chatsworth is small community with no real issues, so in order for the mayor to justify his position he has to focus his energy on something. What problems does the village have? The lack of high speed internet?

I always follow the money and the friendships to find answers to my questions about the motives of politicians. More than likely someone is whispering in his ear.
Apparently the folks that live there feel he is doing a good job, he was re-elected and began his new term 1/1. The 'someone' whispering in his ear is probably the residents and voters. If one doesn't live there, any opinions are smoke in the wind. But that's just my opinion :smug:
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,353
94
1,028
38
camden county
Regarding this part of the article,

"Residents freely hunted on the 9,400 acres of the Pinelands before the land was bought in 2003 by the New Jersey Conservation Foundation, a nonprofit that preserves land and natural resources. They fished and swam in reservoirs, and rode motorcycles and ATVs over the land, Henrich said."

I see stands all over the property, I probably see more tree stands on FPP then I see anywhere around chats.

I see plenty of people fishing.

I see plenty of people swimming,

I also see plenty of people swimming and leaving their garbage behind, I see many orvs still out there. I see orv users cutting the locks on the gates or vandalizing them. You would see even more of this if NJCF wasn't out there in my opinion. If that is what the Mayor wants more of regarding the 'culture' then sorry.
 
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Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
21,847
3,820
1,093
I hear from a resident that Chatsworth may be getting high speed internet. Anyone hear anything about that?
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,464
1,915
1,093
Coastal NJ
I hear from a resident that Chatsworth may be getting high speed internet. Anyone hear anything about that?
I thought the school already had it; via HughsNet I think, but probably wrong. And if the school had it, anyone willing to pay the price could get it.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
21,847
3,820
1,093
A man I work with lives in Chatsworth and they don't have it. He is the one who said he hears they may get it but he did not have details.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,464
1,915
1,093
Coastal NJ
HughesNet is satellite based and costs quite a bit for a residential plan, single site around $50/month. The state uses it for various locations, state parks and forests as an example, and is usually a single point installation. I worked with it when I was involved with a 501c(3) for a state park. Perhaps the town is working to get it for the residents of Chatsworth.
 

Pinesbucks

Explorer
Apr 15, 2013
253
64
28
So here is my 2 cents. Let me start by saying I mean not to offend anyone just throwing out my opinion. I am not a piney just spent a good portion of my life down the pines. I have had discussions with some club members from Chatsworth who used to have access to hunt 6 day on Demarcos property. Now with the fees and insurance it is something they can no longer do. I am sure they have voiced there concerns due to they are tax payers in Chatsworth. My problem with most conservation foundations is that they somehow find ways to restrict hunting access. I can understand insurance but it be NRA insurance or does it has to be thiers. Some of the preserve was paid for by the state. Did these funds come from Robertson Pittman act funds? If so then there should not be a fee to hunt it. I would gladly make donations and join more conservation groups if access was allowed more for hunting as that is one of my primary passions in life. I am glad ground has been preserved just wish it was easier to access hunting wise. Between the nature conservancy and the njcf buying more and more land it seems land that was hunted years ago now might as well have fences around it. As for the atvs and dirt bikes they should be banned from the pines unless on established roads and require a permit.