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RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,959
3,122
Pestletown, N.J.
It's also illegal to bait the snare, which is what happened with mine. There were a number of carcasses around the snare that attracted my dog. I got to her in the nick of time.

Ben,
It is NOT illegal to bait the snare set.
You must keep your bait at least 30' from the snare OR conceal the bait from view if it is less than 30' from the set.
This is to minimize the chances of birds swooping in on the bait and getting in the snare.
I have been using mullet as bait and have been hiding it from view.
Here are the regs. Scroll down to the trapping section.

http://www.nj.gov/dep/fgw/pdf/2007/dighnt59-71.pdf

Scott
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,341
327
Near Mt. Misery
I remember setting up snares in boy scouts, just for practice. In those instances we would use a bent sapling for a spring. What sort of spring device is used on these snares? How powerful is it?

Jeff
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,959
3,122
Pestletown, N.J.
I remember setting up snares in boy scouts, just for practice. In those instances we would use a bent sapling for a spring. What sort of spring device is used on these snares? How powerful is it?

Jeff

Jeff,
There is no power to the snare. They are designed for the animal to pass through, not step on.
They are suspended from a standing wire, usually 14 ga. or thicker
The snare is stranded wire with a formed loop and a sliding lock.
The end of the snare must have a swivel and that end is what gets anchored, usually to a tree.
The snare loop must also have a deer stop to keep the snare from closing all the way and trapping a foot.
The snare must have a loop stop preventing the loop from exceeding 12" in dia.
The loop cannot be set higher than 24" from the ground to the top of the loop.
These rules are for snaring larger animals. For muskrat, mink and nutria, the loop can't exceed 4" and the top of the loop can't exceed 7" off the ground.
Scott
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,844
967
I frequently hike Friendship Bogs with my dogs. Afew years ago I we were walking a very overgrown trail between bogs when one of my dogs stopped right in front of me. I got down on my hands and knees and saw the snare around his neck. The snare had no tag so I turned it in at Atsion. I frequently come across trappers out there.
 

andy1015

Explorer
May 4, 2007
234
1
41
is it easy to remove by hand, for example if my dog were to get hung up in one or does it somehow lock out, and needs to be cut, this worries me also because my dogs take off after deer all through the woods and sometimes i don't see them for 10 or 15 minutes.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,656
8,266
is it easy to remove by hand, for example if my dog were to get hung up in one or does it somehow lock out, and needs to be cut, this worries me also because my dogs take off after deer all through the woods and sometimes i don't see them for 10 or 15 minutes.

Sounds like Bob's Buddy. He does the same thing :)

Guy
 

BobNJ1979

Explorer
May 31, 2007
190
0
call me an animal hugger, but a snag just seems like a bad way to harvest an animal. i always thought they were supposed to be harvested in the most humane and sportsman like way ?
 

Sue Gremlin

Piney
Sep 13, 2005
1,279
236
61
Vicksburg, Michigan
call me an animal hugger, but a snag just seems like a bad way to harvest an animal. i always thought they were supposed to be harvested in the most humane and sportsman like way ?
Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. The whole thing makes me wince. I support hunting 1000%, don't get me wrong. Without it, prey animals would be in much worse shape. Hunters do wildlife justice. But I don't know, perhaps I am ignorant of the whole thing, but snaring just seems inhumane. I keep thinking about what that coyote pup must have gone through. :(
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,959
3,122
Pestletown, N.J.
call me an animal hugger, but a snag just seems like a bad way to harvest an animal. i always thought they were supposed to be harvested in the most humane and sportsman like way ?

Trapping is deeply rooted in the human instinct and drive to harvest animals for food and clothing and pre-dated all forms of hunting with weapons.
I hunt because I was fortunate enough to be respectfully raised in that tradition and I have raised my sons the same.
I trap (or attempt to trap as the case may be) because I am a person who is in touch, every single day, with all things in the natural world.
I really do feel a primal challenge to be able to accurately place a trap (snare) in a place that an animal just might walk through and successfully take that animal.
It is not easy or inhumane.
By law, traps are to be checked every 24 hours at a minimum and in most cases the animal is alive when snared and is dispatched with a rifle.
I do my own butchering and processing of every animal I take with a gun or bow
I would respond to anyone who eats meat and who is concerned with the crulety of taking an animal by snare, that they should visit a slaughterhouse at least once.
A steel pin through the head and more so, the anguish the animal endures between leaving the pasture to arrival at the slaughterhouse and the final pin, is not pretty.
Scott
 

BobNJ1979

Explorer
May 31, 2007
190
0
Trapping is deeply rooted in the human instinct and drive to harvest animals for food and clothing and pre-dated all forms of hunting with weapons.
I hunt because I was fortunate enough to be respectfully raised in that tradition and I have raised my sons the same.
I trap (or attempt to trap as the case may be) because I am a person who is in touch, every single day, with all things in the natural world.
I really do feel a primal challenge to be able to accurately place a trap (snare) in a place that an animal just might walk through and successfully take that animal.
It is not easy or inhumane.
By law, traps are to be checked every 24 hours at a minimum and in most cases the animal is alive when snared and is dispatched with a rifle.
I do my own butchering and processing of every animal I take with a gun or bow
I would respond to anyone who eats meat and who is concerned with the crulety of taking an animal by snare, that they should visit a slaughterhouse at least once.
A steel pin through the head and more so, the anguish the animal endures between leaving the pasture to arrival at the slaughterhouse and the final pin, is not pretty.
Scott

well i knew this would cause a stir and i'm not getting into it w/ you scott. i've been to a slaughter house.. it's sick.. i'm not sure what it's called.. but you take rt 73 south and get off at the Erial / Spur exit (near the atco multiplex) and it's up a ways on your left. i thought they just slit the cows throat and let it hang.

and regarding the snares.. even if the law says to check it ev 24 hrs, what % of hunters do you think actually do ? I tell people (at work) to brush after every meal, but do I ? sometimes, sometimes not. and if ppl's domestic animals are getting caught in the snares, what then ? there's no right or wrong answer here.. just differences of opinion. and that's ok.
 

Sue Gremlin

Piney
Sep 13, 2005
1,279
236
61
Vicksburg, Michigan
I work in the agricultural industry, and understand full well how food animals are slaughtered and have, in fact, slaughtered cattle, sheep, pigs and poultry myself. I do not find it "sick". It is quite humane. The facilities are designed, with the animals' way of thinking in mind, to pretty much keep the animals from knowing what's going to happen, and when it does, the captive bolt (or in the case of pigs and poultry, electrical current) is swift and renders the animal senseless immediately. They seem to fall even before the operator hits the trigger. I often think how animal rights activists should see how fast it happens. I think most of the opposition to this comes from sheer ignorance of what makes animals tick. People tend to assume that cattle think like we do, and nothing could be further from the truth. Working with them, I have come to understand what motivates them, and what is and is not to their liking. In my travels, I do not find the animals experience "anguish" or any other sort of discomfort. Traveling in cattle trucks may not seem particularly desirable for people, but cattle tend to huddle together on their own, (and poop on each other) and are quite content to hang out in a cattle truck and get covered in poop. It is not a whole lot different than kids in a school bus. There are very strict animal welfare laws that dictate how far cattle can travel without "facilities". If I found anything about it to be inhumane, I would have left the industry long ago. I do love animals, (why else would I have chosen the veterinary industry if I did not?) and I feel that it is my job, and much more importantly, my responsibility, to make sure they are treated humanely. Bob, if you saw animals being bled without being stunned, it's likely to be a kosher facility. What about what you saw was "sick"?

Scott, I understand why you get defensive about hunting, as I am sure you get even more flak for hunting than I do for working in the undustry I do. I don't begrudge your hunting at all, it really was just a question. Part of my job is to assess what is and what is not acceptable treatment of animals, so it's just the way my brain works. I just think about the trapped animal standing there for too long without food and water. You have answered my question about checking the traps on a regular basis.
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,959
3,122
Pestletown, N.J.
Sue,
That was an enlightening point of view on the handling of livestock.
I thoroughly enjoy these discussions and usually try to limit myself to presenting the regulatory side of hunting and trapping with just a little personal opinion thrown in. :)

When I step back, I think the only thing that really bothers me is the fact that we as a society are so far removed from the sources of our food and all of the tasks that are necessary to bring food to the table. When you don't have that recognition or appreciation for those things, it detaches people even more from the natural world.

I sometimes feel that it is my job to drag people back and keep them somewhat grounded.

Enjoy your day and stay safe on the road.

Scott
 

BobNJ1979

Explorer
May 31, 2007
190
0
i agree with you scott, about detachment. a few yrs ago, i got my hunting license and went rabbit hunting w/ my friends father.. i loved watching the dogs work together to flush out a rabbit.. while i did not shoot, the rabbit, my friend dad had me "gut" the thing. that i wasn't a fan of.. at that point, i gained a much greater appreciation for the "meat we buy at the store, that's so nicely wrapped".. i really did.

it's weird too. as an avid fisherman, i don't think twice about keeping, bleeding or doing anything w/ a fish.. i think it's b/c they're cold.. the warm feeling of that freshly killed rabbit just did not sit well w/ me.. it felt too human.. anyone else that way ? no problem killing a fish, but a warm and fuzzy makes you uncomfortable. ?
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,253
4,369
Pines; Bamber area
.. anyone else that way ? no problem killing a fish, but a warm and fuzzy makes you uncomfortable. ?

Its the eyes on fish. They have zero depth, and don't ever seem to look at you. Makes them seem detached from things. I know, this answer can be dissected too, but that's what it is for me.
 

Sue Gremlin

Piney
Sep 13, 2005
1,279
236
61
Vicksburg, Michigan
I dunno, I have a problem with killing any living creature, even a fly. Yes, really. That probably makes me sound like a psycho given what I just said, but I just think it's never ever to be taken lightly, and that one should never kill an animal in vain, just to kill it. Yes, I have taken the lives of animals, but I have always had a good and justifiable reason to do so. If I didn't, I'd have a hard time looking at myself in the mirror. My best friend is married to a guy who loves to hunt. Things didn't go well between them and he moved out. He left a chest freezer filled right to the top with foxes and groundhogs and other small critters. These animals were just killed for the joy of it. I was really pretty disgusted when I saw what he had. I don't think he had any real plan for them. He was big into taxidermy, but he would have to spend his annual salary to have those animals stuffed.

I guess everyone has their own angle on things, and it's my angle that if you are going to take the life of an animal, you should do it for a good reason. This guy was not representative of the hunters that I know, who all have respect for living creatures. And I think that right there is what it boils down to.

As far as the detachment from food sources, I see that as a sign of a good standard of living here. If we were a poorer country, or if we had to stand in food lines like they do in Eastern Europe, we'd all have a much keener sense of where food comes from. We are a very successful species if we can be so far removed from it all. I used to work for the American Dairy Association as a sort of educator. We had a road show with dairy cows, with a portable milking parlor and everything. It was my job to show people where dairy products come from. I was amazed at the large percentage of people who were not only surprised that a cow must have a calf to produce milk, but that only the females gave milk. I did not expect people to understand that there are two different "types" of cattle, one that gives milk and one that we eat, but I was not prepared for that level of detachment. It was a very eye opening experience.

:words: Sorry for being so chatty this morning. I woke up very early for no particular reason, so I am fully awake and perky because it's snowing.
 

Sue Gremlin

Piney
Sep 13, 2005
1,279
236
61
Vicksburg, Michigan
Hmmmmmm.
I wonder what happens to all those male dairy cows?
:(

They are raised for beef like regular beef cattle, or are raised as veal.

There was a time when the vast majority was raised for veal. Now only about half of them are. (I am not totally sure of that statistic so don't quote me) The market for veal is shrinking. The rest are raised and finished just like beef breeds.

Very very few are used for breeding.
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,959
3,122
Pestletown, N.J.
They are raised for beef like regular beef cattle, or are raised as veal.

There was a time when the vast majority was raised for veal. Now only about half of them are. (I am not totally sure of that statistic so don't quote me) The market for veal is shrinking. The rest are raised and finished just like beef breeds.

Very very few are used for breeding.

I was only kidding Sue.
I know what happens to the males.
I had a dairy farmer in the family when I was little and I showed holsteins for a few years when I was in college as part of our Agricultural Field Day.
(I took a second place ribbon with a big old girl named Legacy Vestal Biscuit in 1980)

You are correct about the reduction in use for breeding.
Thanks to genetic engineering and selective breeding reproduction is managed almost 100% through artificial insemination. There are a few super cows out there and their sperm is for sale. Check companies like Sire Power. Poor cows dont even get to "do it" anymore..

I am not a fan of veal mainly because I have been to veal farms. In my opinion, feeding an animal an iron deficient diet to keep the meat light colored, restricting movement by tethering so as not to develop muscle tone and then killing it at 16 weeks is a little over the top just to please the buying public.
If allowed to mature, the meat yield is ten or twenty fold and at least the animal has a little time to enjoy a little life here on earth. But in the end, dead is dead.
Life is full of dichotomies.
:)
Scott
 
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