Pushing and Searching

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,054
3,327
Pestletown, N.J.
Nicht vollständig, aber genug. Ich konvertiere meine Koordinaten in Länderebenen mit einem Programm.

Danke.

:) I knew you knew some German but that was impressive ! I had two years of it in high school but I had to use an online translator to fully understand your response.

Anywho, the simplest way I could explain the datum concept is that GPS yields a position on the face of the earth. That position is usually expressed as latitude and longitude. In surveying we use coordinate geometry and expressing points with a northing and easting coordinate. That northing is the y coordinate and easting is the x coordinate in the Cartesian system. The GPS receivers and software that a surveyor uses yields the northing and easting and the z coordinate, which is the elevation, in NJ State Plane coordinates.

In NJ we use the NJ State Plane Coordinate System, which is NAD 83, only when required by the job specs. The system is a grid that covers the State and has built in adjustment for the curvature of the earth. As I said before, we rarely need State Plane for the type of work that we do. The reason we hire an outside firm to burn points for us when we need to is that the physical State and Federal monumentation in a lot of areas is either non-existent or too far from the job to be practical to transfer by conventional traversing.

Here is a graphic from the NGS website. If I had a job in the center of this photo that required NAD 83 and NAVD 88 I'd be calling another surveyor to burn some points for me right next to my job. The red circle is a 5 mile radius. If I don't have monuments within a third of a mile or so, I will have points burned. If I was doing a normal property survey I don't need to be in those coordinate systems and we perform the same work in a random datum that allows us to plot what we did and generate our plans.
ngs.jpg
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,889
1,029
Scott, does all of this fancy stuff eventually come back to where somebody placed a stone 200 + years ago?
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
2,586
60
millville nj
www.youtube.com
On Guy's key map above, I did not look for the ones that he circled. I found the pair to the Southwest; 2019 and 2020. The line of sight was over locally named White Bridge which is the wood bridge over the Albertson. 2020 should still be alive. 2019 is in my yard.
I think you might mean 4019 and 4020? It appears you have the one that was 5 inches under the road? Wonder how that got yanked up to the surface? I"m heading out now and thats the first area I"m headed to.I may not be able to dig if the grounds frozen and it's going to be a dog day so it may be just for them but I want to try the new metal detector out and see how well it picks up these brass discs and how far down.
Thanks Scott and Guy for the replay and yes guy I"ll look for the azimuth and see if i can find it.If the dogs are a pain inthe butt I may have to wait till next day off.Theyt stink bad and need a bath.ain't been swimmin in awhile.They know something is up and are bouncing off the walls.Saw Mommy put her camera in her pocket book.
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,054
3,327
Pestletown, N.J.
I think you might mean 4019 and 4020? It appears you have the one that was 5 inches under the road? Wonder how that got yanked up to the surface?

Yes Al, 4019 and 4020.
I never understood how 4019 came to be dug out. It was located between a fork in two roads, surrounded by trees and completely out of harm's way. Someone would need to have known it was there and how to find it using the NJ Geodetic tie sheet information. There was nothing marking the location previously and I had walked past the location literally hundreds of times before it was removed.
When it was removed, I noticed a hole in the ground and fresh dirt in the fork in the road. I walked around the area and noticed the monument (concrete cast in a galvanized bucket with a disk) about 50' away laying on it's side.
 
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bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,661
4,839
Pines; Bamber area
Thank you for that last post regarding the NGS website. If I report plant location coordinates to the state, I also have to include state plane coordinates. It is tedious, but they want them.

PS: I no longer remember much German. All I had to do was plug in what I wanted to say to you in English, and have the computer translate it to German. :cool:
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,054
3,327
Pestletown, N.J.
Thank you for that last post regarding the NGS website. If I report plant location coordinates to the state, I also have to include state plane coordinates. It is tedious, but they want them.

PS: I no longer remember much German. All I had to do was plug in what I wanted to say to you in English, and have the computer translate it to German. :cool:

If you have the lat/lons for the plants from your handheld the easiest thing to do is to convert the locations to State Plane coords using this tool from the Guvmnt: Corpscon
Set your input for geograhicals (lat/lon) in NAD 83 and your output for NJ State Plane in NAD 83 One click and bang !
http://www.agc.army.mil/Missions/Corpscon/

If you see something on Google Earth that you want to assign State Plane to you would copy the lat/lon and go to Corpscon.
The site I use for grabbing State Plane from an aerial is the NJ Geoweb. The coordinates are displayed for your cursor. The site is a little clunky but once you become familiar with it there is a shitload of data available through the various layers.
http://www.nj.gov/dep/gis/geowebsplash.htm
 

Boyd

Administrator
Staff member
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
9,826
3,007
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
If I report plant location coordinates to the state, I also have to include state plane coordinates. It is tedious, but they want them.

I don't use it much since I have other software, but I think this would be quite simple with qGIS, which is a free open source program. Just tried very quickly.

https://www.qgis.org/en/site/

I enabled the GPS plug-in, created a new GPS layer and imported waypoints from a .gpx file. Was then be able to change the project properties to NJ State Plane (NAD83 / New Jersey).

qGIS is a very powerful program that can do a lot of cool things and it runs on Macs, Windows and Linux.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
2,586
60
millville nj
www.youtube.com
Yes Al, 4019 and 4020.
I never understood how 4019 came to be dug out. It was located between a fork in two roads, surrounded by trees and completely out of harm's way. Someone would need to have known it was there and how to find it using the NJ Geodetic tie sheet information. There was nothing marking the location previously and I had walked past the location literally hundreds of times before it was removed.
When it was removed, I noticed a hole in the ground and fresh dirt in the fork in the road. I walked around the area and noticed the monument (concrete cast in a galvanized bucket with a disk) about 50' away laying on it's side.
A lot of work not to walk off with it.Without looking I believe the disc was supposedly five inches under the road plus there was probably two or three feet of concrete I"m sure. Lot of work.
Well i didn't look for anything today though i was riding around your neck of the woods checking the roads to see what is drivable when i come back.I have been on your side of 206 Not counting canoeing the Mullica maybe a dozen times? I always think that close to Atco and Berlin that I would rather head east into the big woods but they actually are pretty big woods over that way and if I can hear Atco which used to aggravate me now will just seem like home since I have to hear that dam track they have two miles from my house now.You can hear lit literally to the bear swamp and also in my house with the windows closed.In any case I"ll be in your woods again probably Thursday.The dogs kind of put an end to looking for stuff.Every time i got out they went ballistic and then Sophie started Farting.Definitely put me out of the mood so I threw them in Batsto River above Quaker bridge and cooled them off and then took them home.
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,054
3,327
Pestletown, N.J.
The info has it under the road.Perhaps I am confused?
You're not confused Al. The tie sheet shows exactly what you are saying. However, over time, the center of the fork must have slowly built up by road grading and normal woods traffic over 75 years or more until it was no longer in the roadbed itself.
The 10.80' tie would no longer be valid either since the west side of the road is further away than that.

Scott
 
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RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
5,054
3,327
Pestletown, N.J.
....dogs kind of put an end to looking for stuff.Every time i got out they went ballistic and then Sophie started Farting.Definitely put me out of the mood so I threw them in Batsto River above Quaker bridge and cooled them off and then took them home.

A little precautionary message Al.

I never worried about running our dogs off-lead down here and I have been here for 33 years and have had multiple dogs over those years. They have been trained to come back to me with the "HERE !" command and they are both pretty good with that. The springer is a bit of a knucklehead at times so he has an E-Collar on too.

Over the past three years or so I have been seeing more coyote sign and I hear them at night all year long. It has me a little concerned. On top of that, it is predator permit season right now for fox and coyote until March 15 and centerfire rifles, including semi-automatics, are legal during daylight hours. Wharton Avenue back here is as straight as an arrow for exactly two miles and affords some ridiculously long rifle shots. This is concerning because someone that may be a little careless and is glassing for "dogs" crossing the road may let one rip. I hunt that season myself but I put an orange vest on the dogs when running them until the predator permit season is over. By the way, no orange is required for predator hunting; so the hunter himself will not be very conspicuous, in most cases.

If you run the dogs off lead, don't let them range on you and you might want to consider orange vests for them.
As for you, I know you are a camo guy like me. I don't wear orange unless mandated and I always have faith that I don't look like most game animals. Except maybe a small rhino.
:)
 
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manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
2,586
60
millville nj
www.youtube.com
I would like to have e collars on them but the wife refuses to put on on Sophie because she thinks it will trigger a seizure and Sophie happens to be the knucklehead that actually needs a zap in the butt once in awhile,Shiloh minds very well.They do have orange vests but she never brings them.I"ll have to explain the coyote hunting to her. Neither one are leash trained and I have about a 30 second fuse when being yanked around by 106 lb dogs and the foot starts aiming for the posterior end which bodes ill for me because they are Mommas babies. I pity the fool that would actually shoot one with her present.In any case when I actually hunt for the marks I"m leaving the dogs home.Thats when Sophie hi tails it when she sees me circling and hunting for a stone or mark she gets bored and takes off,long as I"m moving she usually hangs fairly close but when I stop off she goes so she's not going on any trips with me that my wife isn't there to watch her. I told her she's only have to shock her a few times and she'd learn quick but she won't have it.
 
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