Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

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russell juelg

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... As far as I know there is little tension between these organized groups. Except for the PPA's recent attack on ORV use. The tension seems to stem from the belief that the activity is wrong and not the individual who abuses it...Jeff
Jeff, I was with you on most of that, but I have to point out that I have tried in multiple previous posts to correct this misconception.

PPA's position is and has been that the current regulations concerning ORV use should be enforced. That is not at all equal to an attack on ORV use.

If there is a particular regulation that you believe should not be enforced, please name it, so we can discuss.
 

Ben Ruset

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Russ,

If the public at large is getting the message that the PPA is anti-ORV then the PPA needs to change the way they voice their opinion, because the message that the PPA is trying to make is not being understood correctly.

From what I have read in the newspapers, and the (admittedly heresay) things that I have heard about the reactions that some PPA staff have to the ORV debate, the PPA is anti-ORV.

You can come on here and say that the PPA is not, and that may very well be true. But that is certainly not how the PPA comes across.

For whatever it's worth.
 

woodjin

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Jeff, I was with you on most of that, but I have to point out that I have tried in multiple previous posts to correct this misconception.

PPA's position is and has been that the current regulations concerning ORV use should be enforced. That is not at all equal to an attack on ORV use.

If there is a particular regulation that you believe should not be enforced, please name it, so we can discuss.
From your previous posts I did understand this. Enforcement of illegal ORV use is in effect and has been for a long time. I believe that increasing police manpower in the state forests could have serious negitive consequences.

Your posts on the matter were very articulate and helped to ease the PPA's position on this for me....unfortunitely my PPA newletter came and about 70% was dedicated to this subject. It was filled with an incredible amount of misinformation, and exaggerations. As I recall the final recommendation was more enforcement, and new legislation. I will have to find that newletter to confirm the latter. But it most definitely came across as an attack. An extremely biased article meant to sway the uneducated.

I was dissappointed with the PPA for publishing such misinformation and for using it's influence with extreme bias. It damaged their credibility with me. I didn't contribute this time around but I might in the future because I support their other efforts.

I respect your postition personally on this Russ. Though I don't agree entirely.

Jeff

Quick note: Russ did not write this article for the PPA.
 

russell juelg

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Rather than reply individually to the previous posts, let me just ask what makes anyone think that PPA is "anti-ORV." Please be specific. I think we can reach an understanding if we discuss specific points.

For example, I just re-read the article (thanks for posting that), and I see the source of one major misconception. The article mentions that we need "municipal ordinances to prohibit the use of ORV's on public and private property."

In the minds of the PPA staff, the issue was that riders were going, without permission, onto other people's private property, and that municipal ordinances should be strengthened to discourage this. The way it is written, however, makes it look like PPA wants all ORV activity to be illegal, even riding on one's own property.

As I look at it now, I can say that the point was poorly expressed or inaccurately written. Perhaps PPA should post a clarification, because in all of our other commincations and advocacy, we have never tried to do anything to prevent people from riding ORV's on their own property.
 

BobNJ1979

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Rather than reply individually to the previous posts, let me just ask what makes anyone think that PPA is "anti-ORV." Please be specific. .
I'll be really specific.. one of the first educational "meetings" the PPA held to inform the public about the damages of ORV's.. held at batsto.. in I think 2006.. i was in attendance as a legal ORV user.... Jaclyn Rhoades and her behavior (both verbal, non-verbal, etc) was enough to broadcast to anyone that the PPA is anti-ORV.. after all, only an organization that is anti-ORV would have Fred Akers there.. .. end of story...
 

russell juelg

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Jaclyn Rhoades and her behavior (both verbal, non-verbal, etc) was enough to broadcast to anyone that the PPA is anti-ORV.. after all, only an organization that is anti-ORV would have Fred Akers there.. .. end of story...
Thanks, Bob. You have been specific as to the people. Now, could you please be specific as to the words or actions?
 

Ben Ruset

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Russ,

I had a similar experience with her. I wish I had the emails saved. That's actually when you and I spoke on the phone for about an hour -- I think even you realized how bad the conversation between myself and Jaclyn was.

Edit: I don't want to turn this into a Jaclyn bashing fest because I am sure she's a nice lady otherwise and she's not here to defend herself.
 

russell juelg

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Russ, I had a similar experience with her. I wish I had the emails saved. That's actually when you and I spoke on the phone for about an hour -- I think even you realized how bad the conversation between myself and Jaclyn was.

Edit: I don't want to turn this into a Jaclyn bashing fest because I am sure she's a nice lady otherwise and she's not here to defend herself.
Thanks, Ben. I recall that the conversation didn't go well, and I understand that you and Jaclyn disagreed about one or more aspects of PPA's position and/or strategies concerning the ORV issue, but what, specifically, did Jaclyn say that gave you the impression that PPA is "anti-ORV"?
 

BobNJ1979

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Like I said I don't have the emails anymore, but I think she started personally attacking me.
that's pretty much what she did to anyone that spoke about ORV use (at the meeting).. and she rolled her eyes and huffed a few times as ppl spoke RE: ORV's.. maybe she join should here.. i saw carleton did.
 

woodjin

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Thanks for linking that PPA article Ben, but the article that I was referring to was in the most recent PPA newsletter. I am sure Russ has a copy. It was far more harsh and contained more errors. I am surpised that the PPA is not addressing the current rules of the state forest, that motorcycles that are tagged and insured as well as trucks are legal. Where as quads and untaggable motorcycles are not. I am also surprised that no mention is made of the long history enduros in the pine barrens and the contribution of enduro and 4x4 clubs in clean up projects.

To the contrary, they claim that ORV use is a recent recreation. Anyway, I didn't want to open this subject up again, I was just responding to Russ's comment about a specific comment I made in earlier post.

Jeff
 

BobNJ1979

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*shrug* Maybe I'm just oversensitive.
no you're right on point with your impression Ben.. you just forgot to add "and anyone that uses them".. I asked her if she thought i was a bad person b/c i was an ORV user (asked her at the batsto meeting).. that's when the body language began.

and enduros have been go on in the pine barrens since 1936.. that was the yr the first one was ran.. and they're suddenly now a problem ? :pigfly:
 
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