Recreation in the Pines... My thoughts

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Ben Ruset

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Are you saying that any new technology that generates any new hobby is acceptable? And if not, how would you judge the degree of acceptability of a new hobby?
No, but what I am saying is that there needs to be some flexability. You're saying that ORV use is a new thing, and I'm saying that hiking, kayaking, etc. is also a relatively new thing in the Pines.

I don't think you have any evidence to make that claim, but supposing it were true, what would that have to do with any of the points I made?
The point is that people are making out that ORV use is going to "ruin" the Pines, and that even before ORV's were outlawed, the Pines are in much, much better shape then they were in the 1970's and before.

Remember that the Pines were once clearcut for charcoal, towns like Harrisville dumped tons of toxic waste into the Wading River, furnaces like Batsto pumped out tons of soot into the air. In the 1960's there was serious talk about taking a ton of land and building a gigantic airport. In the 1970's companies were running rampant with mining sand, lots of people were burning stolen cars in the woods, etc.

The Pines are a MUCH better place today then they ever have been.

This all sounds reasonable on a theoretical level, but where are these designated areas, these places not heavily used by hikers?
Who knows. Lets say that the state wanted to take a few acres out of Wharton? Or a few acres out of Byrne? Or Greenwood WMA? What does it matter? And it doesn't even need to be on state owned land. Those are just examples.

You can't sit there and say "give me an example of where you want a park" because nobody knows where anybody could even build one. You're asking for specifics for something that nobody has even been remotely able to agree on, and honestly it's getting ridiculous.

I'm surprised by your tone. I'm not punishing anyone. I was just calmly expressing an opinion.
It's just that I am so tired of the typical "we have to punish everyone" and "why should we have to do any work" attitude that gets spouted by the PPA. As I have said ad-nausem everyone needs to work together to find a workable solution that everyone can walk away from and feel somewhat happy with. The PPA has the ability to take a leadership role and work to get this problem solved so that everyone is happy. The riders also need to realize that they have work to do to get parks off the ground as well, and that they need to operate those parks in an ecologically responsible way as well.
 

russell juelg

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No, but what I am saying is that there needs to be some flexability. You're saying that ORV use is a new thing, and I'm saying that hiking, kayaking, etc. is also a relatively new thing in the Pines.

The point is that people are making out that ORV use is going to "ruin" the Pines, and that even before ORV's were outlawed, the Pines are in much, much better shape then they were in the 1970's and before.

Remember that the Pines were once clearcut for charcoal, towns like Harrisville dumped tons of toxic waste into the Wading River, furnaces like Batsto pumped out tons of soot into the air. In the 1960's there was serious talk about taking a ton of land and building a gigantic airport. In the 1970's companies were running rampant with mining sand, lots of people were burning stolen cars in the woods, etc.

The Pines are a MUCH better place today then they ever have been.

Who knows. Lets say that the state wanted to take a few acres out of Wharton? Or a few acres out of Byrne? Or Greenwood WMA? What does it matter? And it doesn't even need to be on state owned land. Those are just examples.

You can't sit there and say "give me an example of where you want a park" because nobody knows where anybody could even build one. You're asking for specifics for something that nobody has even been remotely able to agree on, and honestly it's getting ridiculous.

It's just that I am so tired of the typical "we have to punish everyone" and "why should we have to do any work" attitude that gets spouted by the PPA. As I have said ad-nausem everyone needs to work together to find a workable solution that everyone can walk away from and feel somewhat happy with. The PPA has the ability to take a leadership role and work to get this problem solved so that everyone is happy. The riders also need to realize that they have work to do to get parks off the ground as well, and that they need to operate those parks in an ecologically responsible way as well.
Ben, thank you for your hospitality. Folks know how to email me if they would like to continue this in the tradition of rational, polite discussion.
 

Ben Ruset

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Oh wow, you have just got to be kidding.

10 pages on this one thread of going back and forth, and instead of addressing anything that I have to say, Russ bolts out.

Also, this was a thread that I wanted to close last weekend, and Russ wanted to keep it open.

Well, look forward to more of the status quo. Nothing will ever get done to solve the problem because it's always someone elses fault, and we should never ask the state to do anything because we all know they won't so we should just lay down and accept that, and etc. etc. etc.

I tried to give people a pretty open forum to discuss. I've been very happy with the level of rational, mature discussion here. It's a shame that it has to end like this, but so be it.
 

Teegate

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Ben,

I am sorry this thread did not work out the way you had hoped. As we discussed Saturday you should not be worrying what others think when it comes to decisions on how your site is run. If you want to close a post just do it. You may have noticed I only had one post in this thread and that was one more than I should have. It was a good thread that very quickly turned me off. Except for Medford Piney’s initial post, and post 50 from Jerseyman, I pretty much ignored it completely. There was no way in hell anything good was going to come from it.

Guy
 

BobNJ1979

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Ben, I had requested (as well) to keep this thread open. I regret it now.. it's simply back and forth with some ppl (IMO) "Playing dumb" about stuff.. it's the same questions, give me examples, where? sob stories. frankly, reading these latest posts ruined my "after work" beer.

I say close this POS. it's not going to do any good having it open. \
 
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