“Rough and Tumble Pine Plains," A PBX Hike

[1Jerseydevil]

Teegate
This is the point of reference I'm referring to. The county line continues North but is narrow and whooped out from enduro's.
The line going off to the right I assume is a township line? They both were a nice "woods road" until the fire. They had to do what they had to do but honestly I wish they would have let it burn to Red rd and stop it there and let the Plains branch stop it.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.77443346454697&lng=-74.39008969467164&z=16&type=hybrid&gpx=

There's a nice dual tree stands about 200' off the county line if you continue North on the right. Quad trail goes in maybe 200 yards. Really nice set up, you could almost live in the 2 tree stand houses, lol.

 

[Teegate]

Teegate
This is the point of reference I'm referring to. The county line continues North but is narrow and whooped out from enduro's.
The line going off to the right I assume is a township line? They both were a nice "woods road" until the fire. They had to do what they had to do but honestly I wish they would have let it burn to Red rd and stop it there and let the Plains branch stop it.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.77443346454697&lng=-74.39008969467164&z=16&type=hybrid&gpx=

There's a nice dual tree stands about 200' off the county line if you continue North on the right. Quad trail goes in maybe 200 yards. Really nice set up, you could almost live in the 2 tree stand houses, lol.

Yes, I knew that was where you were referencing, however, that is not the location where Burlington County turns and not the location the stone is at. I am going from memory here ....that intersection is the corner of Stafford Township and Barnegat Township and meets the Burlington County line there. However, the intersection of Woodland Township, Bass River Township and Little Egg Harbor Township meet about 450 feet or so further SE and that is where the Burlington County and Ocean County line turns and where the stone is. I said 1870s earlier but I believe it was in the 1850s that the line turned.

 

[manumuskin]

325 ft se to be exact to the stone.

 

[Teegate]

This map pretty much shows it best. You can see all of the towns meeting and you can see the red location where 1jerseyDevil was mentioning and the turn in the county line at the other arrow.

 

[bobpbx]

We should have played a game of tag right there Guy. If one were in Little Egg, you were safe being the only rule (but you had to keep moving). You could have been the referee.

 

[1Jerseydevil]

Thanks for the map and clarification. I didn't think this was the area where all the townships met, for some reason thought it was farther West. My fault for not looking at the topo map. I usually study the old aerials and sometimes back up with topo's.
Now your map and the topo show the Stafford line just below the angled road at my point of reference. Is this road a "coincidence" or was meant as the boundary but is not correct?
Also never realized the bottom Stafford line was "aligned" with the county line and just "assumed" it was the county line. I was in fact on the county line where it makes the turn and was wondering what township line it was when in fact it IS the county line.
Couple questions, can you explain some of the other lines? There is a parallel line to the left of the Stafford line, was this incorrect and the line moved over a bit? I know old lines were redrawn when Haines had his property resurveyed.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.76225326422142&lng=-74.3895049731064&z=15&type=nj1995&gpx=

 

[Teegate]

We should have played a game of tag right there Guy. If one were in Little Egg, you were safe being the only rule (but you had to keep moving). You could have been the referee.

I think Lost Town Hunter would have lost

 

[Teegate]

Couple questions, can you explain some of the other lines? There is a parallel line to the left of the Stafford line, was this incorrect and the line moved over a bit? I know old lines were redrawn when Haines had his property resurveyed.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.76225326422142&lng=-74.3895049731064&z=15&type=nj1995&gpx=

I obviously don't know everything that goes on with the surveying of these lines. If there was an error in the Stafford County line survey it occurred in 1965 when their monuments were put in. There are monuments all along the main "road" and not the thinner cut and I would have to believe they are correct. They match with the concrete monuments that Winfield H. Eldridge placed in 1934/1935. I am quite certain he was commissioned to survey the complete Burlington County line because there was a major error in the Burlington county line just above Route 70 and I have surveys and more particularly survey field notes mentioning the mistakes. So he put in for the first time the monuments we still find today. Up until then only the stones which were far apart and the private lot monuments existed. From that point on his monuments were there to keep the line errors from happening.

 

[1Jerseydevil]

You may not know everything, but you know a hell of a lot, LOL

 

[1Jerseydevil]

Boyd or if someone else can answer.
On Boyd's Lidar map http://boydsmaps.com/#lidar,39.770909,-74.388664,16 the county line is drawn in with black lines and marked. White lines shown are sand roads of the various township borders. My question is just to the left of the county line about 3/4" you can clearly see a parallel line in the topography. Is this the TRUE county line or the one marked in black?

 

[Teegate]

That white line is not the county line. I have to say it is some sort of tape or whatever that is used in the process of putting the black line on the map. If you look closely that area between the white and black line seems to be slightly blurry.

Here is an example to prove my point. In the below link notice the corner cut out of Coyle Field. That is the county line and the black line goes right through it properly. But if you notice the white line you speak of is on the left and that is not the line. It would be impossible for the county to have a line down the complete border as is showing in the map because of landowners not letting them do it. So again, that white line is fake.

http://boydsmaps.com/#lidar,39.814782,-74.412375,16


And even the black line is not exact. The county line actually is not straight. It varies all along it's border. And even the roads that are cut and appear to be the line are many times not cut correctly.

 

[1Jerseydevil]

Thanks, makes sense now that I see the same line to the left of the Coyle field county line. Deceiving though.
I often wondered and was just asking someone if the county line was ever complete, from your comment apparently not. Didn't know landowners refused to allow, that makes sense also.

 

[Y-BUC-BILL]

Thanks, makes sense now that I see the same line to the left of the Coyle field county line. Deceiving though.
I often wondered and was just asking someone if the county line was ever complete, from your comment apparently not. Didn't know landowners refused to allow, that makes sense also.[/QUOTE

Teegate and all the hikers..Thanks very much for the reports and pictures of your hikes.Wish i was able to be with you,but that is not possible .The next best thing at this point and time are in my computer.Thanks a million and keep on hiking.

 

[Boyd]

Boyd or if someone else can answer.
On Boyd's Lidar map http://boydsmaps.com/#lidar,39.770909,-74.388664,16 the county line is drawn in with black lines and marked. White lines shown are sand roads of the various township borders. My question is just to the left of the county line about 3/4" you can clearly see a parallel line in the topography. Is this the TRUE county line or the one marked in black?

Sorry I missed this before. That white line is rather curious, it appears to have been cleared. Here is the section from my newest topo map that shows the boundary (heavy black dashed line)according the state data.

And these are a combination of LIDAR with the NJ2007 orthophotography. The white line is not as obvious here, but there's quite a difference in the surface texture when you look at the area East of the "white line" you mentioned. I guess that comes from clearing the land, or..???

Of course, Guy is "The Man" when it comes to boundaries. I just collect computer files, throw them in the blender and see what comes out!

 

[bobpbx]

Boyd, to the west of the lines, the land gradually dips down into an upper tributary of the Plains Branch. Here the trees grow taller and become more deciduous and dense towards the Branch (and so does the ground cover). To the east we have classic pine plains vegetation, which is mostly about 8 feet high at most.

 

[Boyd]

Thanks. But it seems like such a straight line and it's parallel to the County Line. Didn't Man have something to do with that?

 

[1Jerseydevil]

Boyd
Thanks for the input. I think in this case Guy has the most plausible answer. The white lines [road] aligns with the benchmark that Guy found, but is slightly moved off station by the forest service bulldozer during the Warren Grove fire. The other parallel line does NOT align to the benchmark.
Now regarding the parallel Stafford line, yes there IS a parallel line just to the left approximately 100'+. It appeared sometime between 1963 and 1970. I think there was a latter survey that was either off or correct but the trouble of moving everything just wasn't worth the hassle so probably left the original line.
I don't know how to post a link from Historic Aerials, look at the 1970 of the area to see the 2nd Stafford line.

Now if you want to get confused take a gander at this. I'd say the Penn St Forrest that is drawn in is not correct from the get go. The old boundary lines you see on Lidar are the actual property lines to my knowledge. Haines over the last 10 years has been surveying his property. The new survey lines have been moved North approximately 300' and to the West maybe 600'. The upper line is the actual property line between Haines and the PSF. Notice how it has also moved West along Lost Ln rd. There was never an Eastern line as Haines owns North and South and has no reason to survey somebody else's property. I'd say the new East boundary of PSF is now along Brownies rd.
I know this is all off topic but backs up Guy in that roads and drawn in boundary lines often are NOT accurate. I think this is a perfect example.
http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.76415836661628&lng=-74.43682450454713&z=15&type=lidar&gpx=

 

[Teegate]

That parallel line is nothing. Just look at the map in post 34 and you can see that everything to the right of that line is fuzzy with less detail and everything to the left is clear. It has something to do with the map itself.

 

[bobpbx]

Thanks. But it seems like such a straight line and it's parallel to the County Line. Didn't Man have something to do with that?

But you did ask about the surface texture, no? It really is an extreme change in the vegetation.

Here is a shot Chris took at the line where the vegetation changes when you cross the road.

 

[manumuskin]

But you did ask about the surface texture, no? It really is an extreme change in the vegetation.

Here is a shot Chris took at the line where the vegetation changes when you cross the road.View attachment 7368

Looks like that road was used to stop a fire in the past.possibly a quite large fire.