“Rough and Tumble Pine Plains," A PBX Hike

[bobpbx]

All I'm saying is that there is an abrupt change in the vegetation in the area of the survey line that shows up clearly on all aerial photos. This shot below is from 2007, before the 2010 fire. It has nothing to do with anything humans have done. The road being there is just happenstance.

 

[1Jerseydevil]

That parallel line is nothing. Just look at the map in post 34 and you can see that everything to the right of that line is fuzzy with less detail and everything to the left is clear. It has something to do with the map itself.

Yes Guy I'll agree with your answer regarding the COUNTY line. The parallel white line and over grown road I'm now talking about and maybe the one Boyd is asking about does EXIST and appears to be some sort of "secondary" Stafford boundary line?

 

[1Jerseydevil]

But you did ask about the surface texture, no? It really is an extreme change in the vegetation.

Here is a shot Chris took at the line where the vegetation changes when you cross the road.View attachment 7368

Yes it is quite a change and I believe we have the FFS to mostly thank for holding forest fires at that boundary road and yes there is a finger of the Dry Branch farther back.

 

[Teegate]

I'm now talking about and maybe the one Boyd is asking about does EXIST and appears to be some sort of "secondary" Stafford boundary line?

True, but I am saying the line on the map is not that line, it is something in the map itself.

 

[Teegate]

To clarify. The line on the map to the left of the Burlington County line is something in the map. You can see it all the way as far as the Lidar map goes. This photo in particual is almost at Route 70 and we still see it. There is a Burlington County monument in that area and the black line is almost perfect. I know for sure the back line is quite accurate. And everthing to the right in my mind is again slightly lest clear.

As for a secondary Stafford line I don't see how it could be that. This map has arrows pointing to the line that is there and I circled the locations where I found the Stafford Monuments. A photo of one is below.

 

[Boyd]

To clarify. The line on the map to the left of the Burlington County line is something in the map.

I had another look at my map, which is getting old. For starters, the LIDAR coverage was incomplete when I made it. The image below shows LIDAR coverage in the area of Guy's screenshot. So this explains the lack to detail in the area east of the county line (white dashed line). I used low resolution NED 1/3 arc second data for areas where LIDAR wasn't available on my old map.

In this image I have rendered the LIDAR in a way that better accents the surface detail.

Now the line that Guy has marked with red arrows is odd. I don't know what that is, it does not really show in this new version so I guess it's just an artifact from the way I made that old map. But the line between the "mystery line" and the county line is real. Here's a closeup of the area around the tracks with the county line in black.

 

[1Jerseydevil]

Thanks Boyd and Guy.
I didn't mean to start "trouble" but I'm sure getting an education.
Guy
I don't have the computer skills to "paint" arrows, the best I can do is use the marker. So according to your monuments the faint line [over grown road] to the left of the wide road that the FFS bulldozed during the fire is the ACTUAL Stafford line? http://maps.njpinebarrens.com/#lat=39.76701179801293&lng=-74.38663500946046&z=15&type=nj1995&gpx=
The visible Stafford road image disappears in the aerials to the North. I didn't look for the monument you say was moved by the FFS so apparently the Stafford line "connects" with that wide bulldozed road 325' South of where the county line "disappears" from view? In other words 325' of that bulldozed road is the county line and the moved monument is where the county line makes it turn?
Now I "think" I'm beginning to understand the confusion of all these lines in the sand, lol.
So, I guess you have no knowledge of just what that wide bulldozed road is all about? I know that road existed long before the fire. This is why I confused it originally as the county line and recently as the Stafford line when in fact it is a "nothing" road line?

Boyd
With your enhanced close up I'm not sure exactly where you enlarged but I'm now guessing your mistaking the wide bulldozed road as the STAFFORD line as I have been doing? If so then your Lidar showing a "depression" to the left would be correct. I think both Guy and you have explained that "phantom" depression line to the left of the COUNTY line.

I think I should delete or edit but I'll leave it. I changed my view after coffee, see my reply after Boyd's last reply.

 

[Boyd]

I didn't mean to start "trouble"

Trouble? What trouble? I think we all come here to learn (well, most of us anyway ). I have certainly learned a lot here.

I'm now guessing your mistaking the wide bulldozed road as the STAFFORD line as I have been doing?

I don't think I am "mistaking it" for anything. Just posting pictures…. you have to figure them out for yourselves!

The closeup view that I posted covers (more or less) this part of Guy's screenshot

 

[1Jerseydevil]

I don't want to delete my last reply, I should. It was before my morning coffee. lol.
Now I may be more confused. It appears Guy is pin pointing the monuments he found which appear to be on that bulldozed road? Now I'm confused to what his red arrows are pointing to which is that lighter over grown road line. This is the Stafford line, not the county line which is farther to the left and not shown in his picture.
My original question was about the "phantom" county line which has been answered, now I'm apparently confused about which is the actual Stafford/Egg Harbor line.

Boyd
Your close up and detail is farther North, Rt 70 area and NOT the Warren Grove area? OK, I can't explain what's going on up there.

 

[Boyd]

In Guy's LIDAR screenshot (and the one I posted above), I think he was using the red arrows to point to the white line ("mystery line"). It is evidently some kind of artifact related to how the image was created and not an actual feature of the terrain.

 

[1Jerseydevil]

In Guy's LIDAR screenshot (and the one I posted above), I think he was using the red arrows to point to the white line ("mystery line"). It is evidently some kind of artifact related to how the image was created and not an actual feature of the terrain.

I know I should wait for Guy to post but that "artifact" white line shown on the aerial DOES exist.

 

[Teegate]

This is not getting us anywhere. Here are the facts and everyone can decide what they believe.

 

[1Jerseydevil]

Yes all these lines are confusing. However I believe you resolved the COUNTY "phantom" line issue on the Lidar image so that is no longer the question. The question now is the parallel Stafford line which DOES exist. I put the marker on this line and you can clearly see this line on your satellite shot about 1/2" to the left. You found the monuments on the bulldozed road, so that IS the Stafford line, then any idea what that parallel secondary and "real" cut is?

With your detailed stones/monuments you answered my question about the bulldozed Stafford line being a part of the County line. Are there both stones and monuments?

 

[Teegate]

I only know of monuments on the Stafford line but I am sure there have to be some stones. It is the Keith line from where the Burlington County line turns and to the ocean. So there are surely property stones along it somewhere.

A few of the monuments or lack thereof.


Number 80

Number 81

Number 53

 

[1Jerseydevil]

Thanks for your patience. I see you were out right after the fire, excellent time to go looking.
Is that a pipe in the background in the top photo? I came across a couple of pipes on a trail close to rt 72 some years back. Didn't see any stones or monuments but then wasn't looking either.

 

[Teegate]

The photo's are from 2007 after the Warren Grove fire.

Yes it is a pipe. If you find a pipe it many times is a property corner.

 

[Teegate]

Since I have not visited all of the Burlington County monuments I decide to look for one today while in the area of Poor Man's Parkway. Just 1/4 mile away on Stage Road a hundred feet from Stagecoach Drive this one can be found. Placed there in 1934/1935 by Winfield Eldridge. It is monument number 39.

 

[Teegate]

We also visited a stone along Deepwater Run that Bob found and told me about.

And this stone and older state monument along Stage Road. I could see this from quite a distance away and was hoping it was incited. I did not see anything unfortuanly.

 

[manumuskin]

Bass River. The land of Incised Stones!

 

[Teegate]

Today we visited the area again. Back in the mid 1930s when Winfield Eldridge was running the line he measured from a stone and made reference to it. We found the location today and the stone is gone and the only thing there is a more recent state monument. I poked about 18 inches in the ground all around it with no luck.


The thick line is the Burlington/Ocean County line.

Then we looked for Burlington County monument 38 along the Parkway. I found it under a large log quite damaged.

Guy