Sunrise at 1/4 Mile Road

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mudboy dave

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Oct 15, 2008
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opentrailsnj.org
Pines Lover, After doing some more research I looked over one of the fines that could be issued out at the Scar. The ones I looked at where the wetlands regs that you posted resulting in over $10,000 in fines. It pertains to the regulated activity of "soil disturbance". i really doubt this is what you want to be pushing for because the way the links you posted on Al Horners Blog are worded, you would technicaly be violating that poilicy by walking in wetlands, so not only would you be hurting yourself but alot of other people as well. Hikers, Birders, Hunters, Trappers, Survival Classes etc. Everytime you take a step you are displacing the soil, so please watch what you are pushing to be enforced. Now don't get me wrong, I do not believe it should be that way but reg are regs, right? I still think those that are tearing up the wetlands should have to face seperate fines but you show is not an example of that. Now campbells policy on the other hand, is.

One of the laws being broken.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/landuse/7-7a.pdf
N.J.A.C. 7:7A-2.1(a), 2.2(a) and (b), 2.5(f), 2.6(a)
Conducting regulated or prohibited activities in a freshwater wetland, transition area and/or State open water without prior Department approval.

And the penalty for the above, in this exceptional resource area, would be more than $10,000 per day.
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
0
Pines Lover, After doing some more research I looked over one of the fines that could be issued out at the Scar. The ones I looked at where the wetlands regs that you posted resulting in over $10,000 in fines. It pertains to the regulated activity of "soil disturbance". i really doubt this is what you want to be pushing for because the way the links you posted on Al Horners Blog are worded, you would technicaly be violating that poilicy by walking in wetlands, so not only would you be hurting yourself but alot of other people as well. Hikers, Birders, Hunters, Trappers, Survival Classes etc. Everytime you take a step you are displacing the soil, so please watch what you are pushing to be enforced. Now don't get me wrong, I do not believe it should be that way but reg are regs, right? I still think those that are tearing up the wetlands should have to face seperate fines but you show is not an example of that. Now campbells policy on the other hand, is.

One of the laws being broken.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/landuse/7-7a.pdf
N.J.A.C. 7:7A-2.1(a), 2.2(a) and (b), 2.5(f), 2.6(a)
Conducting regulated or prohibited activities in a freshwater wetland, transition area and/or State open water without prior Department approval.

And the penalty for the above, in this exceptional resource area, would be more than $10,000 per day.

Now thats a far straw to grab at.

Especially since I have attended DEP led tours through many of the wetlands in the Pine Barrens
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
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for your info since you are so informed on the Pines I think you should know for your better knowledge, this is not the Scar, it is on the noth side of the tracks about 2-3 miles away from the scar and it is not JEEP JAMBOREE USA. I'm not stating that this is OK, I'm simply stating that you are filling peoples minds with false information which is a very poor way of trying to win anyone over.

From their own web site
There is usually an abundance of water, so expect to get your feet wet
and your Jeep® 4x4 muddy in the many mud holes and water crossings."

I guess a lot of people are betting nervous they may not be able to make $1,000's of dollars
destroying the many mud holes and water crossings.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,337
4,467
Pines; Bamber area
No Bog Asphodel there? Hmmm I could of sworn there was some less than 1 mile west of where the parway construction is going on.

Actually Dave, there is bog asphodel within 225 feet of the edge of the parkway southbound lane, and with the widening, they'll be within 150 feet.

Not that its relevant, just wanted to set the record straight.
 

Pines Lover

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Aug 15, 2010
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Pines Lover

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Aug 15, 2010
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Actually Dave, there is bog asphodel within 225 feet of the edge of the parkway southbound lane, and with the widening, they'll be within 150 feet.

Not that its relevant, just wanted to set the record straight.


And I bet the mitigation ratio in this area was extremely high
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
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You have mistaken me once again. I'm not one of the people out at the scar. I'm barely driving a 4x4 in the pine barrens anymore. I am however sticking up for both sides, the 4x4 crowd, and the pine barrens. I'm stating you need to get your facts straight before you assume anything. Assumption is what's gonna kill your approach and now even getting other environmentalists to look down on you. How is such a closed minded person such as yourself going to succeed at anything when youre facing thousands of open minded people. SINCE YOUR'E PROFESSION APPEARS TO BE SELECTIVE READING, i'M HIGHLIGHTING THIS!!!!!!! I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DESTRUCTION OF WETLANDS!!!!!


Well my many friends reading this blog are very impressed that I can get people to say the craziest zaniest stuff to try to justify illegal and unethical activities, repeatedly and on a daily basis.

And again I am only criticizing illegal 4 wheelers, before they ruin it for everyone.
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
44
lindenwold
Well my many friends reading this blog are very impressed that I can get people to say the craziest zaniest stuff to try to justify illegal and unethical activities, repeatedly and on a daily basis.

And again I am only criticizing illegal 4 wheelers, before they ruin it for everyone.
there you go again illegal 4 wheelers !! what the hell do you mean illegal ? why do you keep avoiding me ? so ill just go back there in my stock everyday truck and tear it up , will make it any better ? because thats pretty much all thats going on there anymore , my woods truck is also legal , registered , insured and inspected , could you please explain why you keep saying illegal :bang:
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
0
there you go again illegal 4 wheelers !! what the hell do you mean illegal ? why do you keep avoiding me ? so ill just go back there in my stock everyday truck and tear it up , will make it any better ? because thats pretty much all thats going on there anymore , my woods truck is also legal , registered , insured and inspected , could you please explain why you keep saying illegal :bang:

See below

08  08.18.10 Wharton.jpg
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
And again I am only criticizing illegal 4 wheelers, before they ruin it for everyone.[/QUOTE]

You criticize every opinon or statement that does not match your own. You do not read and comprehend before responding. In your view all 4 wheelers are doing something illegal as soon as they turn off the pavement.
 

Ben Ruset

Administrator
Site Administrator
Oct 12, 2004
7,618
1,873
Monmouth County
www.benruset.com
Hi, I'm Ben. I run this place.

I haven't been posting much lately because I'm going through a lot of non-Pine Barrens related drama. I was called to this thread because someone "reported" a post they thought was rude. I have to say that I only got to about page 6 before I stopped reading and went to the end of the thread to post this.

Way back in the early days of this website, I had the same sort of naive idea that the 4x4 crowd and the environmentalists could get together and come to some sort of compromise. I've given up on that idea because it seems that most environmentalists want things their way only and are quite millitant about it, and their idea of fixing things is to fine the shit out of people or cut access off entirely, and most 4x4 enthusiasts (most, not all) have barely evolved past the point of being able to breathe through their nose and completely incapable of getting the 4wd community to not go around and tear up these places.

I used to get incredibly mad at people because if they would "only just see" how "easy" it would be to come to a "compromise" then we'd all be happy. Until I managed to get maligned by both the environmentalists as well as the 4wd'ers. I gave up and decided to let the issue play out as it will.

I even made a rule about not discussing this shit on the website because all it does is foster bad feelings amongst people. I know, and personally like, many of the people in this thread, both 4wd-enthusiast and environmentalist. I didn't put this website up to become a breeding ground of discontent or strife.

If people can discuss this civilly and not resort to personal attacks (which I saw a number of) then you guys can all go back and enjoy playing in the sandbox. If not, I'm going to close this thread and just start giving people some time off to calm down.
 

popeofthepines

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
206
73
Atco
Not to mention that pic is from 8/18. Show something new.

He is going with what he has available. Limited ability to think or see other people's views. Maybe he needs to take the horse blinders off :D

But seriously, he avoided mine and others concerning the economic impact that a closure has on people who use the pines as a revenue source. He avoids those who have a differing opinion than his and just regurgitates the same old, same old.

Illegal four wheelers are those that are performing illegal activities and if he just said it that way so many posts would go away and may be his point would be more respected
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
44
lindenwold
now something like this is what i consider illeagal , and dudes with trucks like this around here dont even waste there time at 1/4 and it would look a hell of alot worse
lee.jpg
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
0
Hi, I'm Ben. I run this place.

I haven't been posting much lately because I'm going through a lot of non-Pine Barrens related drama. I was called to this thread because someone "reported" a post they thought was rude. I have to say that I only got to about page 6 before I stopped reading and went to the end of the thread to post this.

Way back in the early days of this website, I had the same sort of naive idea that the 4x4 crowd and the environmentalists could get together and come to some sort of compromise. I've given up on that idea because it seems that most environmentalists want things their way only and are quite millitant about it, and their idea of fixing things is to fine the shit out of people or cut access off entirely, and most 4x4 enthusiasts (most, not all) have barely evolved past the point of being able to breathe through their nose and completely incapable of getting the 4wd community to not go around and tear up these places.

I used to get incredibly mad at people because if they would "only just see" how "easy" it would be to come to a "compromise" then we'd all be happy. Until I managed to get maligned by both the environmentalists as well as the 4wd'ers. I gave up and decided to let the issue play out as it will.

I even made a rule about not discussing this shit on the website because all it does is foster bad feelings amongst people. I know, and personally like, many of the people in this thread, both 4wd-enthusiast and environmentalist. I didn't put this website up to become a breeding ground of discontent or strife.

If people can discuss this civilly and not resort to personal attacks (which I saw a number of) then you guys can all go back and enjoy playing in the sandbox. If not, I'm going to close this thread and just start giving people some time off to calm down.


Ben

Please leave it up.

There are a lot of decision makers reading it.
 
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