Sunrise at 1/4 Mile Road

[46er]

When I had a cabin up north, there were similar issues with ORV's, almost all were ATV's using and abusing the trail systems. Over time things got better, but not before a lot of the preserve was dug up. And this was with a state ORV trails system in place. The attached is a bit one sided, but the pictures are accurate, as are the statistics. The pictures are very familiar with what we are seeing, we just have wider tracks.

Takes a while to load, PDF document I may have posted before.

http://www.glorietamesa.org/ATVreport.pdf

As far as the PPA; it's a starting point for discussion. I would expect compromise from parties to that discussion.

 

[Anger Management]

Anyone have connections to the Army or National Guard? It would be funny to see the reaction if a Humvee cruised through there with top mounted 50 cal. I know, wishfull thinking!

 

[Teegate]

Guy, what's the best way to file a complaint? Getting law enforcement out there often enough to really address the problem is probably a long shot. I really think we need to get photos and file these complaints.

Well, what I was referring to is all of the posts on various websites that can easily show what it going on. It does not take a rocket scientist to know there is a problem, and I know for a fact the various pines websites are viewed by various individuals who can and have passed this info up the ranks. Whoever is stopping them from being acted on is the one that needs to be changed. I consider my complaint sent.

But I am still concerned this will go to far, and I for one will not be happy about that either.

Guy

 

[bobpbx]

Sorry if I piss anyone up but it's got to get told as it is and I feel I'm the person to do that

I happen to mostly agree with everything you've been saying for the past couple weeks Dave. It is hard for you to be walking the fence on this, but I do think your viewpoint is helpful. I often am in the minority when I suggest set-aside areas (with strict enforcement outside of them) in Lacey Township. I've gone so far as to suggest that the fees from the set aside area be used to pay a couple full time weekend cops to nail the people hard that are outside the fence line.

I am also fearful like Guy is, that if we lean way too hard without a compromise, we'll all be walking.

 

[Teegate]

we'll all be walking.

We should never be walking totally. That is not the way to go. Unfortunately, someone may come up with that stupid idea.

Guy

 

[devilstoy]

i dont see the huge deal everyone makes , i understand reasons to extent , but its gonna be hard to stop everyone going back 1/4 mile , why not let everyone be that goes back there as long as they pick up there trash , wouldnt it better if they stayed there in one spot instead of destroying spots all over ? someone needs to come to agreements so that all of pinelands dont get destroyed , no matter what you do theres always gonna be a few assholes trying to ruin a good time for everyone else , so everyone needs to stick together and keep those few out

 

[bobpbx]

i dont see the huge deal everyone makes , i understand reasons to extent , but its gonna be hard to stop everyone going back 1/4 mile , why not let everyone be that goes back there as long as they pick up there trash , wouldnt it better if they stayed there in one spot instead of destroying spots all over ?

No, not that area. That area is too important to the overall ecology of the Batsto River and as breeding grounds for important species. It is a wetland. Get them out of the wetlands.

 

[devilstoy]

No, not that area. That area is too important to the overall ecology of the Batsto River and as breeding grounds for important species. It is a wetland. Get them out of the wetlands.

i gotcha , what would be a good area ? because no matter what area it is even if its not in the pines someone is going to say that its destroying some type of plants or something reguardless , people just need to let certain things go , look out west , there is thousands of miles of off road trails thru some amazing areas , and im sure there is still people out there trying to fight it because of some wild flower that only grows in the specific area , we have nothing leagal here so of course people are going to go wherever seems conveient and fun to them

 

[bobpbx]

i gotcha , what would be a good area ?

Yeah, its tough, but I do have some ideas. I have to sketch them out. I'll piss off someone though, am positive of that.

 

[Pines Lover]

i gotcha , what would be a good area ? because no matter what area it is even if its not in the pines someone is going to say that its destroying some type of plants or something reguardless , people just need to let certain things go , look out west , there is thousands of miles of off road trails thru some amazing areas , and im sure there is still people out there trying to fight it because of some wild flower that only grows in the specific area , we have nothing leagal here so of course people are going to go wherever seems conveient and fun to them

someone is going to say that its destroying some type of plants or something reguardless ?

You mean point out these illegal 4 wheelers are destroying rare plants.

Nonsense, all of these rare plant populations are well documented by the NJDEP/Office of Natural Heritage. As are the endangered animals like PB tree frogs.

They have been in these areas long before you or anyone who wheeled there and NJ and US tax payers money has been spent to protect them.

Whether you like it or believe it or not.

The Pinelands is this nations first National Reserve and only 1 of 2 United Nations designated biosphere reserves on the Atlantic Coastal plain, the other being Congeree Swamp in SC.

This is a world wide place of ecological importance and contains plants found no where else on this planet.

SO if I brought a howitzer should I be mad that the state gives me no where to shoot it.

Are you aware that ATVs and Jets skies made by Japanese manufacturers cannot be sold in Japan?

Are the Japanese mad because their Gov won't let its citizens destroy there environmental resources

 

[Kim]

What's the big deal about 1/4 mile road? The damage being done is pale by comparison to what the Pine Barrens have seen in the past at the hands of humans (the industrial past that many of you celebrate) . Really, what's the big deal?

 

[skip3]

someone is going to say that its destroying some type of plants or something reguardless ?

You mean point out these illegal 4 wheelers are destroying rare plants.

Nonsense, all of these rare plant populations are well documented by the NJDEP/Office of Natural Heritage. As are the endangered animals like PB tree frogs.

They have been in these areas long before you or anyone who wheeled there and NJ and US tax payers money has been spent to protect them.

Whether you like it or believe it or not.

The Pinelands is this nations first National Reserve and only 1 of 2 United Nations designated biosphere reserves on the Atlantic Coastal plain, the other being Congeree Swamp in SC.

This is a world wide place of ecological importance and contains plants found no where else on this planet.

SO if I brought a howitzer should I be mad that the state gives me no where to shoot it.

Are you aware that ATVs and Jets skies made by Japanese manufacturers cannot be sold in Japan?

Are the Japanese mad because their Gov won't let its citizens destroy there environmental resources

Just need to point out two things, Four wheelers are not illegal ( the way they are being used in this case probably is though ), and you know there is no way the state is gonna give you a permit for a Howitzer. If they do sign me up for one too, bet you could make one hell of a pumpkin launcher out of it ......

 

[mudboy dave]

We should never be walking totally. That is not the way to go. Unfortunately, someone may come up with that stupid idea.

Guy

Guy you know I respect you and almost everything i have read from you. I look up to you as a wizard of the Pines and feel comfortable sending you PMs when I have questions. Howwever your buddy has opened a can of worms that I have been fearing would be opened for the past couple of years. There needs to be a compromise somewheres. For the most part everyone that I know if in the 4x4 world locally(about 2-300) are willing to compromise. I fear the same thing you do as far as no vehiclular access. i also fear further destruction in areas that have not been touched yet. This is why I changed my mind about closing 1/4 mile down. I see this getting really ugly really quick. I'm telling you now, I'm going to be on patrol along with hundreds of others to catch someone booby trapping any area of the pines. If that ends up being witnessed. I will personally tie the person up and call the media to teh location and blow this thing up nationwide if I have too. I'm already putting my press release together for ABC NBC and CBS. Please don't take that last comment as if I'm blaming you for the booby traps. I know it's not you but I feel that you know who it is and they do post on the "Scar".

I'm offering to a round table at any choice location to discuss how to go about this with a few choice people of my own and yall can bring a few choice people of your own. This offering is not specifically to Guy but towards anyone who wants to see this problem resolved or at least cut back tremondously. Bob, I think you'd be a great canadite. You seem well respected from everyone and understand the word compromise.

 

[mudboy dave]

someone is going to say that its destroying some type of plants or something reguardless ?

You mean point out these illegal 4 wheelers are destroying rare plants.

Nonsense, all of these rare plant populations are well documented by the NJDEP/Office of Natural Heritage. As are the endangered animals like PB tree frogs.

They have been in these areas long before you or anyone who wheeled there and NJ and US tax payers money has been spent to protect them.

Whether you like it or believe it or not.

The Pinelands is this nations first National Reserve and only 1 of 2 United Nations designated biosphere reserves on the Atlantic Coastal plain, the other being Congeree Swamp in SC.

This is a world wide place of ecological importance and contains plants found no where else on this planet.

SO if I brought a howitzer should I be mad that the state gives me no where to shoot it.

Are you aware that ATVs and Jets skies made by Japanese manufacturers cannot be sold in Japan?

Are the Japanese mad because their Gov won't let its citizens destroy there environmental resources

Look buddy, do you want to fix this or do you want to just keep being stubborn? I understand your point on the globally rare species. I read evberyone of your posts word for word. If theres no compromise soon, you are going to be stuck walking to the most remote locations of the pines. I'm sure everyone will love you at that point. It's nice that you care, but so do I and I think you are absolutely cluless to what you are getting into. If needed I will explain exactly my logic behind that comment after I go do some work.

 

[mudboy dave]

Yeah, its tough, but I do have some ideas. I have to sketch them out. I'll piss off someone though, am positive of that.

I got your back ,my pinelands brother.

 

[Pines Lover]

Look buddy, do you want to fix this or do you want to just keep being stubborn? I understand your point on the globally rare species. I read evberyone of your posts word for word. If theres no compromise soon, you are going to be stuck walking to the most remote locations of the pines. I'm sure everyone will love you at that point. It's nice that you care, but so do I and I think you are absolutely cluless to what you are getting into. If needed I will explain exactly my logic behind that comment after I go do some work.

Compromise?

There is no compromise in state and fed laws and the fed wetlands act.

Unless you probably go the the supreme court.

Some private entity need to buy a sand quarry and deal with the insurance, legal issues and all the other things nobody wants to deal with

 

[mudboy dave]

What's the big deal about 1/4 mile road? The damage being done is pale by comparison to what the Pine Barrens have seen in the past at the hands of humans (the industrial past that many of you celebrate) . Really, what's the big deal?

Kim you have propably seen me on this board and other boards, I'm a pretty active 4x4 enthusiast. I'm not really up for any land closure to us but 1/4 mile has turned into the Camden of the pines. Those who go out there at night partying have ruined it for the most part. There's broken glass, intact bottles, cans, truck parts etc. Then some of the people that go there don't know how to use a winch, they hook up without tree savers, cut into the trees with the winch cables. Others tear there own trails threw the grassy areas. The only actual road threw there is the one that goes from high crossing to the muddy area, then it runs about 50-100 feet off of the tracks. all the other areas are not roads. If you have been going back to this place since Day1 you know what I'm talking about. Also to top it off there are 2 endangered species specific to that area. Plus in reality the mud is gopne from back there it's just sand and water, thats not wheeling thats just puddle splashing. As I have been saying, there are legal trails out there that have alot more challenging terrain and if 1/4 mile is the only place that aperson knows in Wharton quite frankly we don't need them out there anyways.

 

[Pines Lover]

Yeah, its tough, but I do have some ideas. I have to sketch them out. I'll piss off someone though, am positive of that.

Local tree huggers have recommenced 3 sites in NJ for ORV parks to DEP Comm Martin.

The south jersey is in Gloucester County

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Appendix 1: Possible Suitable Area for an ORV Park location
in Southern New Jersey
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]General Area Description:
Atlantic American Company, 900 E 8[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]th [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Ave., Suite 107, King of Prussia, PA., owns over 2,200 acres
of existing dredge spoils land both North and South of the Commodore Barry Bridge between US
Route 130 and the Delaware River in Logan Township, Gloucester County, New Jersey.

http://www.gehwa.org/ORV%20Documents/App.%201%20-%20Proposed%20Southern%20ORV%20Park%20Area.pdf


[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Appendix 2: Possible Suitable Area for an ORV Park location
in Middle New Jersey
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]General Area Description:
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]100 acre farm field adjacent to the New Jersey Turnpike in Pigeon Swamp State Park, South
Brunswick, Middlesex County.

http://www.gehwa.org/ORV%20Documents/App.%202-%20Middlesex%20Farm%20Field%20ORV%20Park%20site.pdf

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Appendix 3: Possible Suitable Area for an ORV Park location
in Northern New Jersey.
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]General Area Description:
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]The 1,000 acre Hercules Munitions parcels in Roxbury Township, Morris County.

http://www.gehwa.org/ORV%20Documents/App.%203%20-%20Northern%20proposed%20ORV%20Park%20Area.pdf
[/FONT]

 

[mudboy dave]

Compromise?

There is no compromise in state and fed laws and the fed wetlands act.

Unless you probably go the the supreme court.

Some private entity need to buy a sand quarry and deal with the insurance, legal issues and all the other things nobody wants to deal with

What do youmean theres no compromise. I'm not asking that we compromise on 1/4 mile or aor any other vernal pool/spung. I'm saying that tehre are state owned devistated areas within that coiuld be used and caused no harm. We have looked into sand quarrys before and you get the salmander guys on your back, and pine snakes in some areas. We had 900 acres set up with insurance and got turned away. As I look back I wish he did take the millions for the land and they turned it into a shopping mall, cause noone deservbes to get F-d the way he did. we pay taxes on this land just as much as you do. And like I said on the "Scar" blog until there is some bending you are looking at footing it back there.

 

[Kim]

:rofl:

Isn't the issue here driving through (not 'threw') wetlands? Your screenname is mudboydave for crying out loud! Where do you find mud in the Pine Borings? You guessed it: wetlands! Clearly you have no reservations damaging these sensitive wetlands, so why the pretentiousness?

Kim you have propably seen me on this board and other boards, I'm a pretty active 4x4 enthusiast. I'm not really up for any land closure to us but 1/4 mile has turned into the Camden of the pines. Those who go out there at night partying have ruined it for the most part. There's broken glass, intact bottles, cans, truck parts etc. Then some of the people that go there don't know how to use a winch, they hook up without tree savers, cut into the trees with the winch cables. Others tear there own trails threw the grassy areas. The only actual road threw there is the one that goes from high crossing to the muddy area, then it runs about 50-100 feet off of the tracks. all the other areas are not roads. If you have been going back to this place since Day1 you know what I'm talking about. Also to top it off there are 2 endangered species specific to that area. Plus in reality the mud is gopne from back there it's just sand and water, thats not wheeling thats just puddle splashing. As I have been saying, there are legal trails out there that have alot more challenging terrain and if 1/4 mile is the only place that aperson knows in Wharton quite frankly we don't need them out there anyways.