The Economy

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Tom

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Feb 10, 2004
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Well, I will say that I've noticed that the Republicans generally screw up the economy and the Democrats usually fix it.

Well, as Joe Biden so eloquently said, "Gird Your Loins!" Because it looks like we will have the Democrats in there "fixing" it.

And, how, exactly, do the Democrats fix it? Jimmy Carter didn't fix anything. Bill Clinton road the coat-tails of Reganomics and never applied any of the budget surplus toward paying down the national debt. FDR?? He exacerbated the problem.

Please don't construe my remarks to mean that I feel the Republican prop has any better answers - I don't.
 

Ben Ruset

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I don't know how they fix it either. All I know is that Life Was Good (tm) under Clinton, and Life Has Sucked (tm) under Bush.

I like Obama's message. It seems like he's going to win, and it seems like the Dems will control Congress as well. They'll at least be able to get things done, versus being paralyzed like this administration has been.

I just pray like hell that they can do a good job. I don't know how they can do any worse.
 

Tom

Explorer
Feb 10, 2004
231
9
I don't know how they fix it either.

A good start would be to repeal legal tender laws. This would allow good money to come back into circulation, whether it is competing currencies or gold and silver coins. The institution of legal tender laws forces the good money into hiding.

Link the paper dollar back to gold and silver regardless of what the exchange value is. This would immediately halt any further expansion of the money supply.

Then, investigate and audit the Federal Reserve Bank, revoke it's charter and ultimately abolish it.

Withouth the Federal Reserve Bank, there would no longer be any need of the Income Tax and the IRS, so we would then repeal the 16th Amendment.

Re-institute the Independent Treasury, which was abolished in 1921 and give the mint back to the public.

Enact legislation that limits the rights of corporations. They should, in no way, have the same rights as the People. Also, outlaw special interest lobbying.

Reduce the size of the Federal Government and strengthen the States as they were prior to the Civil War and the passage of the 14th Amendment (New Jersey had rescinded it's yea vote on the 14th Amendment. You can read more about it here: http://www.14th-amendment.com/Histo...rsey/Miscellaneous/Resolutions/page_frame.htm) The way the 14th Amendment was forced on the States was quite un-constitutional, if not totally illegal.

Also, repeal the un-constitutional 17th Amendment and return the place of chosing Senators back to the States, as it was intended by the founders.

These are a few steps that would change this country from the Direct Democracy it has become, back into the Constitutional Republic it was and place us back on the road to true prosperity.
 

grendel

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Feb 24, 2006
561
2
Fredericksburg VA
I don't know how they fix it either. All I know is that Life Was Good (tm) under Clinton, and Life Has Sucked (tm) under Bush.

I like Obama's message. It seems like he's going to win, and it seems like the Dems will control Congress as well. They'll at least be able to get things done, versus being paralyzed like this administration has been.

I just pray like hell that they can do a good job. I don't know how they can do any worse.

You like his message? I am surprised to hear that from a wealthy man, do you think "redistributing the wealth" means you will get more? He is talking about your money, you are the wealthy, and he wants to give it to "the less fortunate", meaning those who do not pay taxes. His message is the same as Karl Marx or Fidel Castro. Redistrubute the wealth and gain control of the means of production. Look up the definition of communism and tell me what is different.
" Black liberation Theology".Can you tell me about that? For twenty years Hussien Obama sits and listens to his self described"spiritual mentor" preach HATE from the pulpit. I love the sermon about how any god who is not for the destruction of the white enemy is a god who must be destroyed. Or how about the sermon where he pounds the pulpit screaming "god damn America!" That is just a minor thing, that has nothing to do with the man's ability to be president. Twenty years in a church that gives a "life time achievment award" to Louis Farakahn a man who describes white people as "unevolved animals," and jews as a 'Gutter race". But that really has nothing to do with anything.
It is a good thing Obama is running for president, an elected position is the only job in the government he can get, he WOULD NOT pass the security clearance for civil service. That is not bull that is a fact, he has more in his past that he can't account for than he can account for.
Change, Change, change, we will get change all right, and when you get it you will long for what we had.

Take four minutes and listen to this clip. Tell me how this differs from what any marxist would say.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/obama-affinity-marxists-dates-college-days/
A little more reading
 

RednekF350

Piney
Feb 20, 2004
4,956
3,114
Pestletown, N.J.
You like his message? I am surprised to hear that from a wealthy man, do you think "redistributing the wealth" means you will get more? He is talking about your money, you are the wealthy, and he wants to give it to "the less fortunate", meaning those who do not pay taxes. His message is the same as Karl Marx or Fidel Castro. Redistrubute the wealth and gain control of the means of production. Look up the definition of communism and tell me what is different.
" Black liberation Theology".Can yo tell me about that? For twenty years Hussien Obama sits and listens to his self described"spiritual mentor" preach HATE from the pulpit. I love the sermon about how any god who is not for the destruction of the white enemy is a god who must be destroyed. Or how about the sermon where he pounds the pulpit screaming "god damn America!" That is just a minor thing, that has nothing to do with the man's ability to be president. Twenty years in a church that gives a "life time achievment award" to Louis Farakahn a man who describes white people as "unevolved animals," and jews as a 'Gutter race". But that really has nothing to do with anything.
It is a good thing Obama is running for president, an elected position is the only job in the government he can get, he WOULD NOT pass the security clearance for civil service. That is not bull that is a fact, he has more in his past that he can't account for than he can account for.
Change, Change, change, we will get change all right, and when you get it you will long for what we had.

Take four minutes and listen to this clip. Tell me how this differs from what any marxist would say.

Well spoken Grendel and full of truth.
I can only hope that enough people can see through the haze on election day.
 

Ben Ruset

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Oct 12, 2004
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You like his message? I am surprised to hear that from a wealthy man, do you think "redistributing the wealth" means you will get more?

First off, what makes you think that I am wealthy? Obama is planning on raising taxes on those who make more than $250k/yr. I am a single income household. I make under $100k/yr. We barely scrape by. So while I may have a nice income, it's mostly spoken for, and taxed all to hell.

He is talking about your money, you are the wealthy, and he wants to give it to "the less fortunate", meaning those who do not pay taxes. His message is the same as Karl Marx or Fidel Castro. Redistrubute the wealth and gain control of the means of production. Look up the definition of communism and tell me what is different.

No, he's talking about having folks who make $250k+/yr and who typically pay a lower percentage of their income as taxes vs. the middle class (such as myself) pay their fair share. People who want to compare this to Communism really have no idea what communism is and are grasping at straws. First Obama is a terrorist and now he's a communist! Brilliant. Maybe we can find some more -ist's to label him with.

Lets talk about how great the Republican party has been. To the wealthy. How many oil companies got more and more subsidies while they were making record profits? (If we didn't get subsidies we just wouldn't explore!) How many no-bid contracts were handed out to Halliburton (which just happens to be the former employer of Dick Cheney)? Does helping the super rich help me out? Not in the least.

The Republican party is only interested in keeping the status quo for the rich. Anybody who thinks that the Republicans (and hell, even 3/4 of the Democrats) give a rats ass about those who make less than $100k/yr is insane.

" Black liberation Theology".Can you tell me about that? For twenty years Hussien Obama sits and listens to his self described"spiritual mentor" preach HATE from the pulpit. I love the sermon about how any god who is not for the destruction of the white enemy is a god who must be destroyed.

Yeah, because clearly the sermons that Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have preached in the past have been all about openness and inclusion.

Or how about the sermon where he pounds the pulpit screaming "god damn America!" That is just a minor thing, that has nothing to do with the man's ability to be president.

No different than a President who lies to start a useless war, helps out his oil company buddies, and gives billions in no-bid contracts to Haliburton, positively destroys the economy, and more or less rapes the American public all the while conning people who see the lapel pin on his jacket and think he's A#1 SUPER AMERICAN!!! To me that is far more insidious.

Twenty years in a church that gives a "life time achievment award" to Louis Farakahn a man who describes white people as "unevolved animals," and jews as a 'Gutter race". But that really has nothing to do with anything.

Hey, is it news that black people don't like white people?

It is a good thing Obama is running for president, an elected position is the only job in the government he can get, he WOULD NOT pass the security clearance for civil service. That is not bull that is a fact, he has more in his past that he can't account for than he can account for.
Change, Change, change, we will get change all right, and when you get it you will long for what we had.

He already has a job in government. And you know what, I wouldn't be able to get a secret clearance either because of shit in my past.

I was so hoping that we wouldn't get into a political free-for-all on the site, but there's my point of view. I'm not going to argue it anymore, since nobody is going to be changing their minds over any posts on this website.
 
Apr 6, 2004
3,613
556
Galloway
Ben said:
No, he's talking about having folks who make $250k+/yr and who typically pay a lower percentage of their income as taxes vs. the middle class (such as myself) pay their fair share. People who want to compare this to Communism really have no idea what communism is and are grasping at straws. First Obama is a terrorist and now he's a communist! Brilliant. Maybe we can find some more -ist's to label him with.

Lets talk about how great the Republican party has been. To the wealthy. How many oil companies got more and more subsidies while they were making record profits? (If we didn't get subsidies we just wouldn't explore!) How many no-bid contracts were handed out to Halliburton (which just happens to be the former employer of Dick Cheney)? Does helping the super rich help me out? Not in the least.

The Republican party is only interested in keeping the status quo for the rich. Anybody who thinks that the Republicans (and hell, even 3/4 of the Democrats) give a rats ass about those who make less than $100k/yr is insane.

A nice dose of truth!

Yeah, because clearly the sermons that Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have preached in the past have been all about openness and inclusion.

:rofl:

No different than a President who lies to start a useless war, helps out his oil company buddies, and gives billions in no-bid contracts to Haliburton, positively destroys the economy, and more or less rapes the American public all the while conning people who see the lapel pin on his jacket and think he's A#1 SUPER AMERICAN!!! To me that is far more insidious.

Amen.

:)
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,218
4,319
Pines; Bamber area
Good post Ben. You are batting very well in this thread (at least in my ballpark).

People seem to get the impression that all the wealthy in this country use their disposable income to invest in America and create jobs. That is not the whole story. Does anyone think that some of them do one or more of the following?

1.) Buy villas overseas for vacations.
2.) Buy foreign currency, jewels, and gold overseas and deposit that in Swiss Banks
3.) Buy Art objects from other countries and display that in their villas
4.) Speculate on Oil and thereby screw the rest of us.
5.) Take long trips to exotic places, spending money on foreign owned cruise lines and lavish vacations in other countries.
6.) Buy drugs such as Oxycontin at $80 a pill to feed their guilt habit.

Trickle down indeed. Yes they do this and more. And yet they want our soldiers to invade for the sake of oil, and our roads to drive on and our cops to keep undesirables at bay. Do they think that kind of freedom and convenience is free and cheap?
 

grendel

Explorer
Feb 24, 2006
561
2
Fredericksburg VA
First off, what makes you think that I am wealthy? Obama is planning on raising taxes on those who make more than $250k/yr. I am a single income household. I make under $100k/yr. We barely scrape by. So while I may have a nice income, it's mostly spoken for, and taxed all to hell.



No, he's talking about having folks who make $250k+/yr and who typically pay a lower percentage of their income as taxes vs. the middle class (such as myself) pay their fair share. People who want to compare this to Communism really have no idea what communism is and are grasping at straws. First Obama is a terrorist and now he's a communist! Brilliant. Maybe we can find some more -ist's to label him with.

Lets talk about how great the Republican party has been. To the wealthy. How many oil companies got more and more subsidies while they were making record profits? (If we didn't get subsidies we just wouldn't explore!) How many no-bid contracts were handed out to Halliburton (which just happens to be the former employer of Dick Cheney)? Does helping the super rich help me out? Not in the least.

The Republican party is only interested in keeping the status quo for the rich. Anybody who thinks that the Republicans (and hell, even 3/4 of the Democrats) give a rats ass about those who make less than $100k/yr is insane.



Yeah, because clearly the sermons that Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have preached in the past have been all about openness and inclusion.



No different than a President who lies to start a useless war, helps out his oil company buddies, and gives billions in no-bid contracts to Haliburton, positively destroys the economy, and more or less rapes the American public all the while conning people who see the lapel pin on his jacket and think he's A#1 SUPER AMERICAN!!! To me that is far more insidious.



Hey, is it news that black people don't like white people?



He already has a job in government. And you know what, I wouldn't be able to get a secret clearance either because of shit in my past.

I was so hoping that we wouldn't get into a political free-for-all on the site, but there's my point of view. I'm not going to argue it anymore, since nobody is going to be changing their minds over any posts on this website.

Do you assume that if I don't like Obama that makes me a Republican? That if I am a christian I think Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are great? I think they are both idiots, theologicaly and politicaly. Does attacking them make Obama's church of hate OK ? I understand, I work with a lot of dems. Liberals run on emotions and prejudice. They are also the most closed minded people. The democrats need to just drop the pretenses and come out of the closet and own their socialist ideaology. Nobody is making this up about Obama,this is from his own writings, how he describes his beliefs.
Karl Marx described socialism as a transitory state between capitalism and communism. We don't need hysterics to describe communism, history tells the story. Poverty, loss of freedom, moral decay, purges. Well, guess I am just fear mongering now, those things could never happen to us.
Oh and by the way Ben, you are wealthy, a free man living in the greatest nation in the history of the human race. In comparison with all the people who live now or have ever lived you are in the top ten precent of wealth, education and health. And it was not socialism that got you there.
Nothing personal bud, we all have an opinion and I respect yours even if I do not agree.
God bless
Keith
 

Ben Ruset

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Nothing personal bud, we all have an opinion and I respect yours even if I do not agree.
God bless
Keith

Nothing personal taken. I respect your opinion and also the fact that I have no desire to change your mind, nor do I feel like I have any right to or would even be able to.

Politics and religion are two issues that are always divisive and don't serve to better any discussion about the Pine Barrens, which is why I have tried to discourage them here. My personal feelings are my own and should not be indicative of how I want other people to think.

In the end, what goes on in this nation is so far removed from what us common folk have any influence over that it almost doesn't make sense to get so riled up over it. I have enough of a hard time keeping the bills paid and food on my kids plate, I don't need to take on the weight of the world on top of it.
 
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