Thinking about Aserdaten

[Jerseyman]

If they shows stones, I would be interested. If not, then I am in no rush.

BTW, I noticed there is not a mention of stones in your description of the survey. I have found that almost every survey in the 1700's and early 1800's did not use stones. It is not until the mid 1800's that stones came into wide use in the pines. That was confirmed when I talked to a property owner who has an old incised stone that he says never showed up in the survey records until the mid 1800's. He felt it was placed there then and predated.

BTW, I removed the book and page myself. They were not missing.

Guy

Guy:

My apologies if I revealed information you wished to keep hidden. I went ahead and edited my previous message to remove the offending references. Many of the surveys in the SGO records consist only of written descriptions with no survey draughts. Stones or monument convey a sense of permanence. I believe early surveyors often used stakes and natural markers like trees for large tracts that speculators purchased for parceling and reselling. We could have a whole discussion on the trees called out in survey descriptions!

Survey monuments are a tradition of many millenia: "Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set" (Proverbs 22:28). I think John Lawrence may have set some of the first ones to appear in the Pines along his Province Line, although earlier ones may have existed.

Yes, incised stones indeed!

I agree that owners backdated some stones--a perfect example is the W.P. 1700 stone.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[Ben Ruset]

Ben:

The only listing for Petrus Stuyvesant in the typescript index of the Colonial Conveyances, Provinces of East and West New Jersey is for "Bergen." So, if Stuyvesant owned the property known today as Aserdaten--and I have read the various accounts of this place that state he did--he likely lost ownership of it when English forces gained temporary control of New Netherland in 1664 and full control in 1675. He did not arrive in the New World until 1647, so if he owned the land, that ownership functioned sometime between 1647 and 1664. A check of New Netherland patroonship assignment records would probably yield information on whether Stuyvesant did, indeed, own Aserdaten.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

Well, at one point in time in the mid 1800's Rutherford Stuyvesant owned the land. The story is that his name originally was Stuyvesant Rutherford, but changed his name to satisfy the requirements of a will (which, presumably, he inherited a small fortune.)

He also inherited a farm at Allamuchy, NJ (http://history.rays-place.com/nj/war-allamuchy.htm) which he had stocked with deer. I'm thinking it was stocked with deer from Aserdaten. Beck also claims he tried to start a vineyard near Aserdaten, even going so far as to import some Frenchmen to handle the operations. There is/was a grape vine at Ureka. He also had a cranberry bog and tried to grow trees in the area as well. (I found that out by looking at his papers at the NY Historical Society.)

He also built the first apartment building in NYC!

 

[Jerseyman]

Well, at one point in time in the mid 1800's Rutherford Stuyvesant owned the land. The story is that his name originally was Stuyvesant Rutherford, but changed his name to satisfy the requirements of a will (which, presumably, he inherited a small fortune.)

He also inherited a farm at Allamuchy, NJ (http://history.rays-place.com/nj/war-allamuchy.htm) which he had stocked with deer. I'm thinking it was stocked with deer from Aserdaten. Beck also claims he tried to start a vineyard near Aserdaten, even going so far as to import some Frenchmen to handle the operations. There is/was a grape vine at Ureka. He also had a cranberry bog and tried to grow trees in the area as well. (I found that out by looking at his papers at the NY Historical Society.)

He also built the first apartment building in NYC!

Ben:

When you mentioned the name Stuyvesant in a previous message, my historical mind immediately went to Peter Stuyvesant, the last governor of New Netherland, hence my posting about him.

Sorry for the confusion and the mis-identification of the man named Stuyvesant.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[Ben Ruset]

Rutherford is a descendant of Peter.

 

[Jerseyman]

Rutherford is a descendant of Peter.

I had little doubt of descendency!

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[bobpbx]

Yes.

I recall there being a thought that it would have been odd to have live stock that close to human living quarters. If Guy or Bob want to chime in to confirm my recollection, it will help to confirm if I am remembering correctly.

Jeff, you are correct. The area is cleared in the vicinity of the cellar holes (on the northern side). What is perhaps throwing Ben off is that it does not look visually like most peoples conception of a clearing. It is about a 15-20 yard radius, and trees have already grown back on some of it. Ben can certainly be forgiven for calling that into question.

 

[bobpbx]

Jerseyman, I was surprised to hear a local use the name "Cherry Valley" several weeks ago. I will query the gentleman as to his perception of the area in his mind. Interesting.

 

[bobpbx]

Here is the scan Bob.

Guy

You know how sometimes you can make out a poorly written word by stepping back and squinting at it? Try it, does that help?

 

[Teegate]

Bob,

It has to be one of the two tributaries off of the Chamberlain just east of 539. I am thinking now that I may have found a stone for that survey, or a future survey at the top of a lowland just off of Dutchmans road.

Either the right or left of here.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=39.84854&lon=-74.3726&size=m&u=4&datum=nad27&layer=DRG


Guy

 

[Teegate]

You know how sometimes you can make out a poorly written word by stepping back and squinting at it? Try it, does that help?

Will have to look tomorrow.

Guy

 

[woodjin]

Jeff, you are correct. The area is cleared in the vicinity of the cellar holes (on the northern side). What is perhaps throwing Ben off is that it does not look visually like most peoples conception of a clearing. It is about a 15-20 yard radius, and trees have already grown back on some of it. Ben can certainly be forgiven for calling that into question.

Oh Good. Thanks for restoring my confidence in my memory.

 

[Jerseyman]

Jerseyman, I was surprised to hear a local use the name "Cherry Valley" several weeks ago. I will query the gentleman as to his perception of the area in his mind. Interesting.

Bob:

Please do reply with any information that you might glean from the local gentleman concerning Cherry Valley. It would be great to learn what he knows!!

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[wolfspider05]

Guy:

My apologies if I revealed information you wished to keep hidden. I went ahead and edited my previous message to remove the offending references. Many of the surveys in the SGO records consist only of written descriptions with no survey draughts. Stones or monument convey a sense of permanence. I believe early surveyors often used stakes and natural markers like trees for large tracts that speculators purchased for parceling and reselling. We could have a whole discussion on the trees called out in survey descriptions!

Survey monuments are a tradition of many millenia: "Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set" (Proverbs 22:28). I think John Lawrence may have set some of the first ones to appear in the Pines along his Province Line, although earlier ones may have existed.

Yes, incised stones indeed!

I agree that owners backdated some stones--a perfect example is the W.P. 1702 stone.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

WP 1702 stone? I know of the WP 1700 stone I finally found awhile back but not the 1702, there are more?

 

[wolfspider05]

This thread is really interesting, I enjoyed reading it.

 

[Jerseyman]

WP 1702 stone? I know of the WP 1700 stone I finally found awhile back but not the 1702, there are more?

Sorry to get you all excited, Wolfspider05, it is a simple typo on my part. :cry:

My tongue was wrapped around my eyetooth and I couldn't see what I was sayin'!! :rofl:

Best regards,
Jerseyman

P.S. I have dutifully made a correction to the offending message!

 

[wolfspider05]

Sorry to get you all excited, Wolfspider05, it is a simple typo on my part. :cry:

My tongue was wrapped around my eyetooth and I couldn't see what I was sayin'!! :rofl:

Best regards,
Jerseyman

P.S. I have dutifully made a correction to the offending message!

Awww man you got my hopes up!!