Thoughts on ATV use in New Jersey.

Trailhead00

Explorer
Mar 9, 2005
375
1
18
43
Haddonfield, NJ
ATV use in New Jersey and especially in the Pine Barrens has been debated for quite some time. Anyone who has read some of my posts understands I am an advocate for ATV use on state land. I recognize there is no easy solution and there is not one solution that would satisfy everyone. I still feel that if both sides could come together a plan could be hatched out. These are my thoughts and ideas and I wanted to pass them along to see how you feel about them. Any input would be great and much appreciate.

#1: Any and all ATV's and off-road motorcycles would have to registered and insured. If stopped by a law enforcement official proof of registration and insurance would have to be provided.

#2: Any and all ATV's and off-road motorcycles would be required to have a license plate mounted to vehicle.

#3: Anyone who operates such a vehicle in a state forest must have a sticker or permit, much like the ones needed to gain access to Island Beach State Park. The cost would be between $200 and $300 per year. A limited amount would be available.

#4: A map would be provided to the applicant to show ATV designated areas. The map would show which trails ATV's are allowed on, if the operator is on a trail that is not shown on the map, they could be fined and/or lose their permit.

ATV's would not be permitted to have free reign over the state forests. Only certain state forests would allow ATV's and only in certain areas. No access in or near overly sensitive areas. Designated areas would be rotated every year. For example: If section 1 was used this year, the following year ATV use would only permitted in section 2 and ATV use would no longer be permitted in the previous section.

#5: Riders would be required to wear blaze orange, either a jacket, cover on their helmet and/or a flag. This would make it harder for them to hide if they were to wonder off a designated trail.

#6: ATV's would be required to meet a certain decibel limit. Determined by the state and for the machine to be accepted it would have to be tested at a state run facility.

#7: Any and all ATV operators would be required to participate in classes about the Pine Barrens and conservation efforts in New Jersey. Riders would learn why the Pine Barrens are so unique and why they need to be protected. Respect for the Pine Barrens and nature in general would be the goal. Said class would also cost the rider money. $25 to $50. This class would be availabe approximately 4 times per year and would be mandatory.

Okay those are some of my ideas. What do you think? Flame away. Haha.
 

LARGO

Piney
Sep 7, 2005
1,518
57
1,028
49
Pestletown
I stay away from this topic because basically with all my soft and friendly and hopefully well displayed love of the pines, I am on the Rogue side. Sorry.
And no, I don't tear up the lands. Far from it. I will say this. Your intentions are good, your thoughts sound, but those against you will blow holes in points 1 - 7 and 1 - 100, period. Good luck getting through the crap.
You'll fail. Sorry to Crap on your parade.
(sorry, edit... no please don't lump me in with the A-holes that ruin it for the rest of you. You'd be lucky if a but a few folks in this group ever saw me out there, much less John law but maybe a time or two)


g.
 

Boyd

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Jul 31, 2004
6,919
1,207
1,093
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
I'm not much of an ATV fan, but try to keep an open mind nonetheless. I think your proposal would address many of my concerns and it's a very good start. However, I'm guessing that you will have a lot of problems with the ATV community finding support for something so restrictive...
 

Trailhead00

Explorer
Mar 9, 2005
375
1
18
43
Haddonfield, NJ
Thanks for the replies and no one crapped on my parade. I know this would be an uphill battle and basically impossible to get done but wanted to put it out there none the less. I ride all the time and all over the place but I was thinking if the ATV owners were willing to concede on a few things and show they can be responsible that something could get accomplished. I just find so frustrating that New Jersey basically says "no" and that's it to ATV's. Oh well. Thanks again.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
11,295
1,998
1,093
Pines; Bamber area
Any input would be great and much appreciate. Okay those are some of my ideas. What do you think? Flame away. Haha.
Trailhead, you asked for some comments. I'm not going to crawl in a hole, I'll give you my opinion. Your comments are all sound, and you obviously put some real thought into them. They all seem to be okay at first glance.

State Forests though, were procured for more passive recreation; camping, hiking, wildlife viewing, etc. The less intrusive type of recreation promoted in and around the natural state of nature if you will. If we open the door to displaced private ATV parks, because that is what that section of forest would become, then we have to change the scope of State Forests, and start allowing all other kinds of motorized recreation. Not only that, the public not allowed in because of the limited numbers would start hollering about how unfair it is, and ask the state to open more of the land to ATV use.

No, sorry, I would not like to see it in State Forests. Can you tell me where you think this would work in NJ? Perhaps if I had an idea of the location and size you are talking about, it might soften me up a bit.
 

GermanG

Piney
Apr 2, 2005
1,027
280
1,063
Little Egg Harbor
I’ve pretty much avoided this topic in the past as well, since my own views were sometimes represented by others here and I didn’t really have much to add to what had already been said. But I would like to weigh in at this point. First, as a gun owner and hunter, I am already very sensitive to the situation where a few individuals committing illegal or unethical acts cause generalizations to be cast on the larger group. I realize that the majority of ATV users act responsibly and don’t blame the damage done by a few on the whole ATV community.

My biggest problem with ATV use is related to the changes that have occurred in our state over the years. Many have already said how they used to ride all over the region without any problem. But thanks to commercial and residential development, we now have more and more people pursuing outdoor recreation on less and less available acreage. Some of these uses are compatible in close proximity to each other and others are not. I have had opportunity to operate both ATVs and their waterborne counterpart, personal watercraft. I found both to be fun, and certainly understand the thrill many get from using them. But both ATVs and personal watercraft give the most thrills and are the most fun when operated in a manner that makes them a pain in the ass to anyone pursuing other activities in close proximity. I’m not talking about using these vehicles to get from one place to the other, the way any of us might use our trucks or cars in the woods, but the more extreme riding for its own sake that many buy them to do.

I can’t suggest an easy answer to this problem. Once again using my experiences as a firearm owner, I’m certainly not one to readily suggest banning things. I think part of the problem is the fact that ATV dealers are selling vehicles without going out of their way to inform the buyers that there are few places to legally use them. The other day while I was buying some shotgun shells at a local gun shop a salesman was showing a Thompson submachine gun (semi automatic operation only) to a customer. As a history buff, it caught my interest, but as cool as I found it, I’d never contemplate buying one since there would be few opportunities to shoot it in our area. Simple self regulation, based on the realities of our state. But that’s a hard pill to swallow for someone already well into and passionate about ATVs.
 

LARGO

Piney
Sep 7, 2005
1,518
57
1,028
49
Pestletown
Simple self regulation, based on the realities of our state.
Of all the fine points you make, this is the most sensible. Truth be told it is
the biggest single reason I don't ride near as much anymore. Well, that and learning from Bob how precious and rare all those plants are I've been plowing over all these years.

I like this comment of yours a lot German because it is transferrable to so many issues in Jersey. I'll keep it in mind.

g.
 

imkms

Explorer
Feb 18, 2008
450
80
28
SJ and SW FL
ATV usage

Just my 2 cents.........
While I am not %100 sure, I believe the current rules require that all vehicles be licensed, registered and insured. I also believe that the rules indicate that vehicles must only use roads designated for use by vehicles, i.e. riding on trails or old/abandoned roads that have shrunk is prohibited.
I am one of those who has been exploring the pines for nearly 40 years by foot, canoe, kayak, 4x4 and motorcycles. I currently operate a dual sport motorcycle which allows me to ride on highways and off road. I only use my bike on established dirt roads and do not ride on trails or elsewhere off road as I do not want to tear up the grounds. Allowing any vehicles to leave the roads and ride on trails or elsewhere will absolutely lead to damage of these areas and I am firmly opposed to it. I don't see limiting vehicles to the dirt roads a burden as there are 100s of miles to use. Rangers can't be everywhere to prevent bad behavior and 5 minutes of abuse by an ATV, Dirt bike, car, truck or 4x4 can cause damage that may take years to recover.

#1 Agreed
#2 Agreed
#3 Disagree (currently handled by registration)
#4 Neutral
#5 Disagree (take off the orange and go where you want would be applied)
#6 Agreed (but should be/is part of the yearly vehicle inspection)
#7 Disagree (damage can come from any vehicle as does all the trash, singling out a specific group leaves the majority ill informed)

As you said there is no one fit solution, but I agree that the situation needs to be fairly addressed. Good luck!
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,464
1,915
1,093
Coastal NJ
All good points, and I agree something should be done to allow ATV'ers a place for responsible riding. Mountain bikers and horse owners have access to the state parks. A motor sports event, the Pine Barrens Express is allowed to run each year on state park roads, see the link, but it is an organized and well run event. The problem I see is one of enforcement of any regulations put in place and the speed some riders feel they must attain to enjoy their sport. But unfortunately, the actions of some ATV'ers will keep any public access from happening. That and the folks that govern this state will have to change. The ATV community needs to come together and start to self police themselves, that would be a step in the right direction.

http://www.midatlanticrallyseries.com/flyers/2008PBXFlyer.pdf
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
18
40
lindenwold
y do you need it insured. its not on a road. i feel like that is a waste
to answer your question , the pin barrens go by the same rules as a public road , if your car is not street legal its not pinebarren legal , as for atv's i been riding my whole life , and used have some spots we didnt get botherd , or half the time we spent ditching the police , althought i would love to hit some trails on my quad thru the pines , i dont think it would be a great idea for some others ,
if they ever alow it , and although alot of people will follow the guided , theres gonna be those people who wont register and insure thinking that they let atvs back there now its less of a chance they will actually get caught , and also a ranger in a trruck chasing and catching an atv back there will mostly be impossable , and theres always those assholes with no respect for others and the land around they are on , and wanna tear everything up ! so if ever do let atv's back there , theres going to have to be some serious guidelines and watched over back there,
 

mudboy dave

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
949
18
18
38
atco
opentrailsnj.org
y do you need it insured. its not on a road. i feel like that is a waste
you ever think that it may be the lawsuit happy morons that sue everyone possible, while riding knowingly that there is a chance of getting hurt? I support ATVs and lifted trucks to the max but don't get me wrong in this state yeah they need to be insured. polus what is it 3-400 a year? whoopidty doo.
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
18
40
lindenwold
you ever think that it may be the lawsuit happy morons that sue everyone possible, while riding knowingly that there is a chance of getting hurt? I support ATVs and lifted trucks to the max but don't get me wrong in this state yeah they need to be insured. polus what is it 3-400 a year? whoopidty doo.
thats why we cant ride nowhere anymore ,even on private property the owners didnt care so much we rode as long as we didnt mess with there equipment , but now we have sue happy morons , if i ever got hurt , i deff would not want to sue due to the fact when i heal up im still gonan need somewhere to ride ,
 

BIGGMIKE101

New Member
Nov 30, 2008
7
0
1
Has any budy seen what they did at the chatsworth atv park ? This state makes me sick.they will let them build wa wa s every 15 miles wal marts every 40 to 50 miles and they wont let you have a riding park .they would rather build homes in the pines then let you ride in them .us the people are not going to reck the pines . The rich and the greedey are.
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
18
40
lindenwold
Has any budy seen what they did at the chatsworth atv park ? This state makes me sick.they will let them build wa wa s every 15 miles wal marts every 40 to 50 miles and they wont let you have a riding park .they would rather build homes in the pines then let you ride in them .us the people are not going to reck the pines . The rich and the greedey are.
yea i seen it , they didnt even level it , they dumped endless piles of dirt and rock and cut a massive amount of trees down , what the hell do you call that ?
 

Aaron

Explorer
Jul 29, 2007
171
0
16
Alot of good posts in this thread.

I do not currently own a ATV or a 4X4 vehichle.

My real question is why should the state have to make a atv park for the residents of NJ? Anyone that wants to ride there ATV go to salem or cumberland county and buy 40 or 200 acres or how ever much you want and ride the day away.

I know that may not sound like a logical solution but riding atvs in an area thats supposed to be preserving wildlife and natural areas doesnt sound any more logical to me.

Im sure if all the people that want to ride put there money together they could get a huge lot of land and go to it.:words:
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
18
40
lindenwold
Alot of good posts in this thread.

I do not currently own a ATV or a 4X4 vehichle.

My real question is why should the state have to make a atv park for the residents of NJ? Anyone that wants to ride there ATV go to salem or cumberland county and buy 40 or 200 acres or how ever much you want and ride the day away.

I know that may not sound like a logical solution but riding atvs in an area thats supposed to be preserving wildlife and natural areas doesnt sound any more logical to me.

Im sure if all the people that want to ride put there money together they could get a huge lot of land and go to it.:words:
have you priced out even a 5 acre lot ? yea its alot ! so the only way to ride off road is to be a ,millionare ? seems cops wanna crack down more on atv riders and off roaders more then anything , maybe i should start selling crack and robbing people and the police wont bother me then i could buy my own land to ride on , O and even the state own parks get boreing after a while , same hills same bumps same scenery , we used ride in quarys with real challenges and making riding actually fun , but thanks to sue happy douche bags we cant ride any where no more , i would love to ride in the pines but as for atv riding it would get boreing also , but would be fun at first just to be able to explore trails to tight for my truck , this thread isnt even actually avout riding in the pines , its more of riding in general , cause i myself would reallyhate to see atvs legalized in the pines even tho i ride , i dont wanna see shit destroyed back there
and if you get a bunch of buddies together and even buy land , whos name does it go in and then there is still liability issues , your best friend could sue you if he get hurts , just cause he signed a peice of paper doesnt hold up in this state any more
 

Aaron

Explorer
Jul 29, 2007
171
0
16
have you priced out even a 5 acre lot ? yea its alot ! so the only way to ride off road is to be a ,millionare ? seems cops wanna crack down more on atv riders and off roaders more then anything , maybe i should start selling crack and robbing people and the police wont bother me then i could buy my own land to ride on , O and even the state own parks get boreing after a while , same hills same bumps same scenery , we used ride in quarys with real challenges and making riding actually fun , but thanks to sue happy douche bags we cant ride any where no more , i would love to ride in the pines but as for atv riding it would get boreing also , but would be fun at first just to be able to explore trails to tight for my truck , this thread isnt even actually avout riding in the pines , its more of riding in general , cause i myself would reallyhate to see atvs legalized in the pines even tho i ride , i dont wanna see shit destroyed back there
and if you get a bunch of buddies together and even buy land , whos name does it go in and then there is still liability issues , your best friend could sue you if he get hurts , just cause he signed a peice of paper doesnt hold up in this state any more
Yes i do know how expensive property is down here, and the reality is that alot of it isnt really expensive at all. http://www.riverbeachrealty.com/homesearch/SearchEngine.aspx?CustomerID=167

there is a 8 acre lot on there for 50k

Before i bought my house down here i looked at a property with a 3 bedroom house ( needed to be gutted or torn down) with 6 acres for 45k. Alot of people spend that on restoring an old car. I guess it depends where the persons passion/priorities are. When i want to go and shoot my guns i dont expect the state to have a free range for me, its a dangerous activity that needs alot of over sight i either shoot on property im allowed to practice on, or i go to the range. Same line of thought for me.

Next we will want the state to put snow blowers on our mountains so we can ski on there :rofl:
 

devilstoy

Explorer
Nov 21, 2008
355
1
18
40
lindenwold
Yes i do know how expensive property is down here, and the reality is that alot of it isnt really expensive at all. http://www.riverbeachrealty.com/homesearch/SearchEngine.aspx?CustomerID=167

there is a 8 acre lot on there for 50k

Before i bought my house down here i looked at a property with a 3 bedroom house ( needed to be gutted or torn down) with 6 acres for 45k. Alot of people spend that on restoring an old car. I guess it depends where the persons passion/priorities are. When i want to go and shoot my guns i dont expect the state to have a free range for me, its a dangerous activity that needs alot of over sight i either shoot on property im allowed to practice on, or i go to the range. Same line of thought for me.

Next we will want the state to put snow blowers on our mountains so we can ski on there :rofl:

but the state provides area's for you to go shoot your guns right ? and theres also private clubs right ? and even through out the year you get to go out on state land and kill the wild life right ? well we dont have anything even near those privliages!
i been riding and racing dirt bikes my whole life and some of my friends parents built motocross tracks for us to ride on , but i dont race any more and just enjoy getting out and about on the atv,and we cant even do that , and my sister owns 4 acres in franklinville but they hunt and its all woods so riding there is not very much fun at all
o and people that spend that kind of money to restore a car have it like that , we always rode at this one pit with no problems , and this guy that lives across the street has so much money he bought the land and blocked it off just to be a dick and not let people ride there ,