Tucker's Isle

[manumuskin]

This is all very interesting and thanks for the info. I made a trip out to the island just north of

And the rest of the set here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinhooa/sets/72157622221592426/with/3883267992/

Did you make it to the coast guard shack at the south end of the island? That caught me as a complete surprise.The first time i went out there I canoed across the inlet of great bay from seven bridges road and walked the beach to the south end and came back up through the dunes and wooded patches.The shack had sleeping bags and canned grub in it.The second time i went out I took a flat bottomed boat with motor from Leeds point and the thrid time i went out i kayaked north from the backside of Brigantine through the marsh.I love it out there but a lot of posion ivy.

 

[CurMUDgeon]

Problem is I've never been able to hold a trail well.It's very hard to squeeze off trail and into the bush between area closed signs,not my idea of a good place to explore.I guess I'm not easily pleased.
Al

OK ...Issues of your non compliant nature are an entirely different thing than Forsythe lacking and closing the trails as you orginally complained - LOL!!. I just wanted to be sure you were writing about the right place as the statments you wrote did not sound like the refuge I enjoy and know very well.

 

[manumuskin]

Thats it! a non-compliant nature! You hit the nail on the head! I have been trying to coin a term to describe my hard headedness and that is it!It's hard to discover things when your stuck on a trail that everyone else has already beat you down.How many times do you discover a ten point rack attached to skull along a well used trail?You might find a cell phone or a gps but your not going to stumble upon a Bobcat den or a perfect Snapper shell,someone else already got that.
Al

 

[DSW]

Jeff
I am not sure about the legality of landing on it.I did see no tresspassing signs along the southern shore of the island and the signs stated it was because of seabird nesting though there were no dates posted that you could tresspass legally.Perhaps they would not say anything if you landed after nesting season.By then i had already walked the whole island from north to south since the first time i went there i put in at the end of seven bridges road and canoed across the inlet.I was crazy back then I know.We saw one clammer parked in the inland pond at the northern edge.The second time i went there we put in off leeds road and took a flat bottom motorboat across and landed mid island on the western edge.The third time we canoed from brigantine on the marsh side and landed on the sw corner.This time we found the coast guard station and checked it out.Sleeping bags and bunks a nice cozy place.I wanted to stay but once we used up the fresh water left there it would have got uncomfortable.
I do believe it is technically off limits at least above high tide line in the dunes where the birds nest.People I hear land on the beach all the time for surf fishing and what not and I think this is ok.I doubt they would mind if you explored the island after the birds are gone.Warning there is poison ivy and oak everywhere that isn't submerged in salt water.A couple of small patches of dune forest exists which much ivy and black cherry trees.Quite attractive as long as you don't touch the foliage
One place i still haven't gotten too and I believe it is off limits too in the NWR is oak island.There are ruins on it from I believe colonial times.I think a Mathis or something lived out there.There is a road going to it but from the aerila the birdge appears to be out.It could be reached via a landing west of it just off route 9 or by swimming the creek where the bridge is out.Looks like a very interesting island.I'd probably go in the fall after whatever their trying to protect has reproduced and either left or went into winter mode.
Al

The cabin at the south end has alleged ownership via 99 lease to a very protective group of locals from brigantine. That is why the state did not remove (burn) this cabin down like they did all the other houses in the 70's. I would not spend too much time there as they do watch over the place. The locals do not play nice with trespassers. Rutgers and another agency is currently conducting erosion studies on little beach as I read in Philly Inquirer a few weeks ago.

 

[manumuskin]

well the only posted signs were from the NWR ,nothing from any private club and the nwr signs were on the beach.If they are so protective they should go high hog and splurge for a lock on the door.I took nothing but curiosity was just too much.This was probably 17 years ago I believe so there may be a lock now.

 

[DSW]

well the only posted signs were from the NWR ,nothing from any private club and the nwr signs were on the beach.If they are so protective they should go high hog and splurge for a lock on the door.I took nothing but curiosity was just too much.This was probably 17 years ago I believe so there may be a lock now.

Your right, they figure, if you lock it, then folks would be curious and break in. If you leave it open, there is no curiosity. Most people that go there, if any, that may visit the "shack", know the caretakers. The unwritten rule around town is "don't mess with the shack there. I was just on Little Beach last Friday, got a bad case of poison ivy while poking around for remnants of the 12 or so houses that used to be there in the missle of the island, bay side.

 

[manumuskin]

The NWR does not allow visitation there.Do you have special priveleges or are you a renegade like me? Yes the island is Poison Ivy hell.I did everything i could to avoid it and still got a few spots.Last time i was there the dock that was out in front of the life saving station was still there,everything else was flat but you could still find pilings and boards and such scattered around.I wasn't aware of the history then so did not make a concentrated search.

 

[DSW]

The NWR does not allow visitation there.Do you have special priveleges or are you a renegade like me? Yes the island is Poison Ivy hell.I did everything i could to avoid it and still got a few spots.Last time i was there the dock that was out in front of the life saving station was still there,everything else was flat but you could still find pilings and boards and such scattered around.I wasn't aware of the history then so did not make a concentrated search.

Renegade for sure. The life saving station was actually on the North end of Brigantine, not Little Beach, and there was a dock, its now long gone. I was referring to Little Beach Island. There were about 12 or so full size houses on Little Beach between the 40's and mid 70's, thats when the State took over the Island and the houses all burned down at once, most likely set by the State. Folks had deeds to those lots, and still do. The houses were on a small crescent shape woods line in the middle of the Island. If you go on aerials, you can see the houses through the years, clearly. The one remaining intact house, which resebles the old life saving station, is towards the inlet side of Little Beach, almost on the sand. that is the house I mentioned had a 99 year lease or something that allows it to stay intact like that. I heard from locals that they once took an old life saving station over there by boat in peices, maybe thats it. Anyway, through the years, the Island became a weekend hangout and big party for the youths. My neighbor here in Brigantine now was one of them, he tells me stories. There was a greaet article with photos in the Tuckerton Decoy Museum magazine newsletter about 2 years ago. Check out aerials.

 

[GermanG]

There was a Little Beach Life Saving Station. It was Station #24 (later Coast Guard Station #120) It was abandoned by the CG in 1945. There were two additional stations to the south on Brigantine island. If you go to the live map section on this site, then the historic topo maps, you can see all three.

 

[bobpbx]

Do you have special priveleges or are you a renegade like me?

Al, in some countries, people like you, me, and Guy don't need no stinking special priviliges. As far as freedom goes, this country is relatively stingy for a free country. See this interesting link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

 

[Boyd]

Yeah, it's such a shame that people have the right to own and protect their private property in the US....

 

[manumuskin]

Thanks for that posting Bob! Whips wife is from Sweden and has informed me that this is the way it is in Sweden.I personally don't care much for their socialism but in regards to their views on private property I much prefer them to ours.I understand Boyd that you are a property owner,I own a little too basically just a yard which is all close enough to my house that no one really has any business poking around it but I understand you own some woods.In Sweden folks are allowed to cross your land and camp for one night before they must move on without permission to stay longer.Now I understand this is America and everyone here seems to have the MINE disease.I see MINE on signs on trees all over the woods around here,quite unsightly in My opinion.Now if I had woods what i would love to do is open them to everyone.If folks could or would use low impact camping methods I would have no problem with them passing through and camping on my land.I would allow hunters but would want to know basically where they were hunting so as to avoid disturbing them and avoid by untimely demise for being mistaken for a large furbearing animal which still evades me how anyone could be mistaken for a deer.I understand we have a serious problem here with folks being unwilling to take personal responsibility for their own safety and I think this is the issue for most of those MINE signs at least I'd like to think it is.No one wants to be sued because someone was on their land and tripped over a stick and broke their leg.In a nation where McDonalds is successively sued because someone scalded themselves on coffee thats was too hot I understand why you would not want someone on your property.The bitch would have sued them if it was too cold too no doubt.
If we could force people to take responsibility for themselves and get rid of this sue mentality I'd be glad to open up any property I had (excepting a private buffer around my immediate home which is reasonable)Then again we need a whole new mentality of respect for other peoples land which at least in NJ does not seem to exist.The people that owned that shack on Little Beach never knew I was there.I took nothing,I broke nothing.I think it was right down nice of them to leave it unlocked.What if I was in a boating accident in winter and was wet and freezing fast.They had sleeping bags in there,that would have been a life saver.Sadly in this country many people would have stolen everything worth a buck and then burnt the shack down.I believe under our present attitudes and legal systems what works in Sweden would not work here and hence Boyd I understand your MINE attitude.It works in Sweden because folks there seem to respect other folks property in a way most here can't conceive of.Tell me (I am interested) Boyd if you didn't have to be worried about frivolous lawsuits and people setting your woods on fire or using it for a trash dump would you mind if people passed through your woods accessing other woods?Or camping for a night? I personally could camp for a night and leave the next morning and unless your a good tracker you would never know I was there.Whip and I camped one night along the upper Delaware river within forty foot of someones house.We literally could find nowhere else to get off the river and it was almost dark.We pulled the canoe up and set up a tent in a very small woodlot in the dark,slept till it just started to get light,took the tent down and shoved off before you could see well at all.They never knew we were there.This was a little too close for what i would expect to be granted in this type of property sharing system but we were desparate.Rapids at night I doubt would be any fun!People along the upper Delaware are notoriously anti canoeist because the federal government turned it into a national river and the locals feel this tramped upon many of their private property rights because they actually felt they owned their section of the river and could keep people off which is in direct conflict with the right of navigation on any navigable river.There is nothing I'd like better thatn to see all these nasty MINE signs come down off of south jerseys woods but until attitudes andthe sue happy laws here are changed(attitudes of owners and those who would use/abuse their land) then those signs are there to stay.Until then renegade like Bob and I and some others reading this will have to practice stealth mode while respectiing all over property rights so that no on knows we were there.

 

[46er]

Yeah, it's such a shame that people have the right to own and protect their private property in the US....

Yep, just imagine what this state would look like if that were not the case. The scar is just one example and that was/is on open access public land.

 

[manumuskin]

as an afterthought there are many private hunting preserves around here.They basically have the MINE disease because they want their own hunting grounds without being swamped by everyone else looking for their own spot.They might be accepting of this free tresspass deal with changing attitudes and changing lawsuit laws but I don't think they will ever go for free use during hunting season.I think this may be an insurmountable problem because south jersey has a much denser population then most of Sweden and a very large hunter population.Then again with free tresspass and hunting for everyone there would be much more land opened up and maybe folks wouldn't feel as cramped up and possessive?I doubt it, I think the MINE disease may be to ingrained into our psyche for many people to to actually consider practicing the concept of sharing they taught their kids.

 

[Boyd]

What a shame to spoil this nice thread with more politics. Maybe Ben can split this OT stuff off to the politics forum or slag heap. Al, I can't read such a long post without any paragraph breaks. I'm already sorry that I took the bait that started this thread down the wrong path.

 

[46er]

as an afterthought there are many private hunting preserves around here.They basically have the MINE disease because they want their own hunting grounds without being swamped by everyone else looking for their own spot.They might be accepting of this free tresspass deal with changing attitudes and changing lawsuit laws but I don't think they will ever go for free use during hunting season.I think this may be an insurmountable problem because south jersey has a much denser population then most of Sweden and a very large hunter population.Then again with free tresspass and hunting for everyone there would be much more land opened up and maybe folks wouldn't feel as cramped up and possessive?I doubt it, I think the MINE disease may be to ingrained into our psyche for many people to to actually consider practicing the concept of sharing they taught their kids.

Al, a real life example of my own. I used to own a couple of acres and cabin on the West Branch of the AuSable River in upstate NY. A nationally known trout river, I had no problem with fisherpersons or guides bringing there customers to fish on our property, most were respectful and carried out what they carried in. But it got to the point, after having to have fish hooks pulled from my dog, that the 'get outta here' signs went up. Leaving fishing line and trash around, too many were slobs. I still allowed the guides I knew access and there were no issues, but the morons that couldn't read didn't catch on until some shotgun blasts into the air gave them a better understanding. SP came around, had a nice chat and left. I think it took a box of shells in total before word got around. The Nordic countries do not grant full unfettered access to any land; there are hunting and fishing rights the landowner has, and only unused land not being farmed or otherwise used is open.

 

[manumuskin]

What a shame to spoil this nice thread with more politics. Maybe Ben can split this OT stuff off to the politics forum or slag heap. Al, I can't read such a long post without any paragraph breaks. I'm already sorry that I took the bait that started this thread down the wrong path.

I write like I think, as I think it. I know my grammar leaves somewhat to be desired then again some folks political views do the same in my opinion.
By the way where did I stray into politics?I mentioned some law issues but never made a pro or anti republican or democrat remark.Does this mean no legal issues can be brought up except in the politics forum?

 

[Boyd]

I was actually thinking of Bob's comment which started the whole thing "As far as freedom goes, this country is relatively stingy for a free country". Seemed political to me, but I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder...

I have no problem with your grammar. But it's very difficult to read a full screen of text if you don't hit the carriage return key every now and then to start a new paragraph.

I'm not going to take the thread any further off topic by discussing my opinions on private property.

 

[Ben Ruset]

I don't have the time to go back and read through the last bunch of posts, but if it's not on Tuckers Island and folks want to have a philosophical chat about political topics, I think it'd be best to follow Boyd's suggestion and start a new thread in the appropriate forum. Then just put a link to that thread into this thread.

I'd rather keep the historical stuff in the Ghost Towns forum and the political stuff in the Politics forum if folks wouldn't mind.

 

[manumuskin]

No problem.Can't even remember what got me started.I cease and desist.