windows vista

[amf]

If you look back at macrosquat's history, they have a tradition of coming out with "new" os versions that are dogs, followed by versions that get it right. IIRC, ms-dos 4.0 was one of the dogs that replaced a perfectly functional ms-dos 3. 4.0 was shortly replaced by dos 5.0, which worked well.

As windoze came along, the early versions were pretty pathetic, particularly when compared to what apple offered at the time. They seemed to finally get things to run relatively smoothly with win98, then had the winME debacle. XP once again seemed to clean things up, provided you were not taking a snooze on security issues. My concern with vista is that it will be one of their dogs, only its become such a juggernaut there is no way to avoid it. I'm in the market for a new machine right now, and would do so today if I could get it with XP.

And on the browser issue, go with firefox... you won't regret it!

 

[Boyd]

Forbes Magazine just came out with a review that is rather negative....

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0226/050.html?partner=yahoomag

But as with every previous version, there's no wow here, not even in ironic quotes. Vista is at best mildly annoying and at worst makes you want to rush to Redmond, Wash. and rip somebody's liver out.

 

[james ungehajer]

I did not want to start a new thread,but i downloaded mozilla firefox 2 at 5.00 a.m. this morning,and i am definitely impressed with it.Of course the first site i bookmarked was N.J.PineBarrens.com

 

[Ben Ruset]

I can see why Vista would not run on an 18 month old laptop. The graphics cards in older (and yes, 18 months is an old laptop) laptops are generally integrated cards with small amounts of RAM.

When XP came out, people hated it. Now it's pretty well accepted. The same thing happened when Windows 98 came out.

It's very easy to bash Microsoft. In fact, it's pretty much the "in" thing to do. People have options now. They can spend a ton of money and buy a new Mac, which have well known hardware problems (at least the laptops), or they can run Linux on their desktop. As long as you're not looking to go outside the lines with Linux, you may like it. It's certainly going to be faster, you can run Firefox and Thunderbird, and do many other things that you can do with a Windows machine.

Vista did make some boneheaded UI decisions (why do they hide the File / Edit / View / Etc. menu everywhere, why did they munge up the control panel) but in terms of stability -- if it's installed from scratch on a good machine, you shouldn't have any problems. If you have a rickety XP install with exotic or old hardware, it may not work so well.

 

[james ungehajer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070222...rtual_vista;_ylt=Ao4n1JKn2VDj2aS8bDv7HSuyBhIF

Check out this vista article from microsoft.

 

[Teegate]

You have to realize that this article for the most part does not effect the basic Windows user. It deals mainly with those who run Vista and have software that only runs on XP with VirtualPC being used. And it also effects Mac users running Parallels such as Ben did when he had a Mac.

In any event, the article highlights the fact that Microsoft thinks that the basic home Windows users are not technically savvy enough to handle their software. And if you are a Windows user you MUST purchase their more expensive software in order to be a home user and run VirtualPC. But Mac users can purchase their cheaper software and run it just fine with Boot Camp. Basically, their faithful customers get the shaft while those who buy Macs don’t. Do you want to use products from a company that treats you that way?

Guy

 

[Boyd]

Do you want to use products from a company that treats you that way?

Unfortunately the answer must be "yes" or Microsoft wouldn't control 90+ percent of the operating system market and probably something similar for the Office Suite.

But for me personally, I voted with my feet and sold my MSFT stock two weeks ago after holding it for about 6 years. IMO, they have completely lost their way...

 

[LARGO]

Honest Help Please

Here's the deal, I need your honest and hopefully educated opinions on this.
I have waited and listened & heard Pros/Cons. I am starting over totally on a new system and pretty much have it all laid out with Dell. I know, dirty word to some. I myself like Dell and actually have not had bad customer service experiences. I was concerned about problems with Vista but here it is in a nutshell. Now, you basically have to request XP.
Order new and you're gettin Vista & I feel XP has run it's course. It's done soon anyway isn't it? Sorry if that sounds stupid.This thread has been enlightening and I do have other input but...
Can you guys who know or use it give me a real assessment?
I mean the following with the most respect to all... I don't care one bit about the politics and stock market standings of Dell,Microsoft, or Hostess Twinkies.
Sorry if that was rude. What I do care about are the informed assessments from respected site members.
Past experiences do have me getting a dedicated rather than integrated Vid card.

Anyone?

G.

 

[james ungehajer]

George

I agree with you totally on the dedicated video card, my first computer with win 95 had an integrated card, i wanted a better card installed because i was heavily at that time into graphics demanding games, the computer guy told me the only way to get a better video card was that he had to use a jumper to bypass the original card to use the new card, what i have learned IMHO is to get the fastest processor, the best video card, sound card etc, from my very limited knowledge of vista i think you need the above mentioned to properly run vista.

I like all computer models, what you like is what you like and that is your decision and your decision only, i was looking at a dell system about a year ago, the only thing that stopped me from purchasing it was monetary reasons, besides the wife. It was matter of factly the only model that offered everything that i wanted that i mentioned above.

So whether a person has a compaq, hewlitt packard, dell or mac i respect all of them.

Go for it.

 

[Boyd]

I was just reading a discussion of some issues with Vista on another forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=708230&postcount=1

hardware drivers might well suddenly stop working with regularity as microsoft revokes those drivers, PC graphics subsystems will warm restart for no reason with some regularity, and video software performance will take a substantial hit due to added layers of heavy encryption/decryption and constant polling of hardware.

I'm a moderator at this site which is devoted to digital video, and people there are holding off on Vista because software packages like Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, etc. are not fully supporting it yet and there are lots of problems. Sounds like it will take a number of months, maybe longer, before these are resolved.

At work our IT people have no plan to migrate to Vista anytime soon.

Also funny because yesterday my friend wrote me that she has reached the end of her patience with her Sony Vaio running Vista. Last March I went PC shopping with her because she wanted to buy a new computer here in the US before returning home to Greece in a couple days. She used Macs while at film school and didn't like them, so I didn't even try to change her mind on that account. At a big electronics store in NYC (J&R) they no longer stocked any machines with Windows XP so she went with Vista.

Yesterday she said she was thinking of selling the PC and getting a Mac because she's so frustrated. She isn't a "computer person" at all and just wants things to work as expected so she can get her work done, but her existing software either won't run or has issues. She was really very upset and said she was ready to throw her laptop out the window!

If you do decide to go with Vista I suggest you do a little digging and see if the software you regularly use works properly. Otherwise you might want to play it safe and just get XP since you could always upgrade later.

 

[Ben Ruset]

She isn't a "computer person" at all and just wants things to work as expected so she can get her work done

That's the best argument for getting a Mac. It just works.

Here's why I got rid of my Macbook Pro, though:

1) Produced way too much heat. I had to buy an aluminum stand for it, whereas with my Dell laptops I can just put them right on my desk.

2) Stupid home/end keys don't work as they should in Windows and Linux. If I press home it should go to the beginning of the line. If I press end it should go to the end. I use this a LOT.

3) I manage some Windows servers and the version of Remote Desktop that Microsoft released for OSX is pretty awful. It's slow, and you can only connect to one server at a time, versus having multiple connections open to different (and even the same) server in Windows and Linux.

4) A lot of time I would close the lid and the laptop wouldn't go to sleep. When I would get home I'd find a roasting hot (as in would burn your fingers) laptop all closed up in my backpack.

I think at least #1 would have been mitigated if I had gotten a Macbook as opposed to the Macbook Pro.

 

[LARGO]

O.k.,
You guys have me scared. I was hoping that purchasing a new machine and starting from scratch would be safe as it seemed upgrades were in fact the problem and not the product itself. I am not buying a laptop so I can't really assess the decision based on that. To me cooling issues are always present. Either way I am getting the system next week but I now may be chewing on ordering it with XP. At the least it is the system I know. I just fear that a future upgrade may invite the many problems discussed here unless they work all the bugs out. If I still have support regarding XP maybe that ain't so bad. My head IT guy is out till Monday and he will be my last consult because he is brutally honest and really good. My company has not made mention of it as a change either.
Well, I asked for good consult and you've given it and I'm lost. Thanks though for informed responses.


G.

 

[Boyd]

If I still have support regarding XP maybe that ain't so bad.

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-6175735-7.html

Starting next year you won't be able to buy a new PC loaded with Windows XP, despite the lukewarm reception of Windows Vista.

Microsoft will stop selling Windows XP to PC makers such as Dell, Lenovo and Hewlett-Packard by January 31, a company representative confirmed Thursday. The software maker will stop selling XP to system builders, the smaller custom PC makers, a year later, the representative said.

Since you're considering a Dell, you might also find this blog on their site interesting...

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/04/04/10397.aspx

You can also find some interesting things at Microsoft's "Lifecycle Support" site. According to this, they will end all support of XP on April 14, 2009... mark your calendar

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?C2=1173

 

[Ben Ruset]

Yeah, but when you buy a PC from Dell/Lenovo/etc. your support for the OS comes from Dell/Lenovo/etc. Microsoft is still going to be making security updates/patches for XP through 4/8/2014.

Now, you can still call Microsoft with a support question - at a cost of $250 per call, refundable if you have a problem based on a bug or defect in the OS - but that support will end, as Boyd said, on April 14, 2009.

As a coincidence, the Titanic hit an iceberg on April 14, 1912.

 

[Teegate]

Even though I have always owned a Mac, and always will, there still are some annoying problems where they “just don’t work”. I still can’t get iPhoto to print multiple photo’s on on page properly, and they never are the proper size. And the quality is never what I had hoped for. I print out photo’s on the Mac side in my computer, and switch over to Windows and they look so much better there. And I still have not been able to burn a complete full quality tape from Jessica’s video camera onto a DVD using iMovie or iDVD.

And the Windows Media Player problem which may be Windows fault is a mess. However, finally most news sites such as CNN has changed so that problem is getting less and less. BTW, if you have not been to CNN lately it is much much better. In the end the biggest problem with Mac’s is the lack of availability of software. With most people wanting to come home from work to use the same software there, the Mac is not the way to go. But if you can get past that if that is your preference, there is no better computer than a Mac.


Guy

 

[LARGO]

Good info all, thanks...
Just spent some good phone time with a sharp IT guy from my wife's church.
He runs vista on his HP laptop happily with 1.5 gig. Has one glich left he wants to work out.
His points are as such, for my needs on a home PC system I should be fine and support from Dell as they sold me the system should be there even if I wish to downgrade back to XP which I do not think I would do. If I accept auto updates & fixes how can I go wrong??
I think since I am playing the novice here, why not just learn Vista from scratch and be open minded?? I still feel like I'm gonna roll with it.. I will gladly accept help from anyone willing to give once I've committed to this.
Guy, I know Jack about Mac so I trust your opinion is sound. Wish me luck!

g.

 

[bobpbx]

Speaking of CNN, I sent them an angry email. They annoy me when they post a sensational story with video only, in the hopes that people who are gluttons for seeing someone else in misery will click on the video so they can run an advertisement. The latest one is.."toddler dies in hot car". That is exploitation at its very worst.

 

[Ben Ruset]

Yeah, I never watch the CNN videos. I usually go to http://news.google.com and hope that they've picked up on another outlet that has the same story in text form.

 

[james ungehajer]

Good info all, thanks...
Just spent some good phone time with a sharp IT guy from my wife's church.
He runs vista on his HP laptop happily with 1.5 gig. Has one glich left he wants to work out.
His points are as such, for my needs on a home PC system I should be fine and support from Dell as they sold me the system should be there even if I wish to downgrade back to XP which I do not think I would do. If I accept auto updates & fixes how can I go wrong??
I think since I am playing the novice here, why not just learn Vista from scratch and be open minded?? I still feel like I'm gonna roll with it.. I will gladly accept help from anyone willing to give once I've committed to this.
Guy, I know Jack about Mac so I trust your opinion is sound. Wish me luck!

g.

George, how much ram will the system have ?

 

[bobpbx]

Yeah, I never watch the CNN videos. I usually go to http://news.google.com and hope that they've picked up on another outlet that has the same story in text form.

Yup, I do the exact same thing.