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I understand, but what I'm suggesting is not to relive the past, but rather to pick up where we are right now and work on some things we all agree on. I have to run out to FPP for a few hours, but I'll check back in to see if anyone wants to grab a beer this afternoon/evening. I'm also available...

Pic-A-Lilli is fine with me. I could be there this evening or just about anytime over the weekend.

Here’s what I’m thinking, gentlemen. We’re all a bit older than we were in 2015, and, hopefully, a bit wiser. What we have in common is probably bigger than what we may disagree about. Whatever we may disagree on, it shouldn’t cause us to treat each other as enemies. Instead, let’s have some...

From what I have heard, the current thinking is that a digital map for Wharton, and eventually other places, will be created, but I don't know if the state intends to publish it in hard copy. If they don't, of course, users could take their digital copies to Staples or wherever and print their...

Thank you! I hope you're right!

Sorry, I haven't been posting here in quite a while. Good to be back. I do have direct connections to the Fix Our Parks campaign, and I think a lot of people here will support it. If you go to the site, you can read Mike VanClef's report, so you can get the main information right from the...

Ben, thank you for your hospitality. Folks know how to email me if they would like to continue this in the tradition of rational, polite discussion.

I don't know, John. I have a hard time understanding why one or more of the clubs don't just contact a real estate agent and tell them what they want. I think if you are leaving yourself at the mercy of the state, you are bound to be dealing with a long wait. What does the state ever get done in...

Okay, so the numbers of loud dirt bikes and ATV's are going to slowly decrease over time? That would definitely be a good trend.

Are you saying that any new technology that generates any new hobby is acceptable? And if not, how would you judge the degree of acceptability of a new hobby? I don't think you have any evidence to make that claim, but supposing it were true, what would that have to do with any of the points...

I think we need to talk about specific places. Where would you recommend we put these parks?

Sure, it's all about balance. Hypothetically speaking, balance is a wonderful thing, but that doesn't get us anywhere. Unless someone proposes a specific place for a park, it's impossible say what "balance" might mean.

Not sure what you mean by the first two points. The land is both yours and mine, but that, by itself, doesn't imply anything about exactly what ought to be permissible on that land. Give me a specific reference within post #1 and I will try to respond. FOR THE REST OF THIS POST, PLEASE NOTICE...

I tend to agree with Ben here, but maybe for a different reason. I would think that the noise of repeated traffic on these plow lines would be more of an issue for other users and wildlife than the width.

I think with all these questions, we have to look at specific situations rather than hypothetical. But I believe that with most sand mined areas, the desired material has been extracted, and the owners are supposed to return the area (to the extent possible) to a natural condition. As for...

How many legal venues of what size would be required? Do you have any specific places in mind? I agree that the OHV fuel tax is an important issue. If that money were to be applied to a piece of property, what do you think it could buy?

Medfor Piney: "as far as a park meeting the CMP and all, ... I think that converting an old strip mine to a park is completely reasonable..." The devil's always in the details. It really is impossible to generalize, because so many of these old mines have become breeding ponds for T&E...

Medford Piney: "... I guess I would like to see opportunities for non-street legal bikes, if managed properly within the state forest." If by "non-street-legal bikes" you mean unregistered and untagged, how could they be managed properly? One of the biggest issues for enforcement is that you...

Trying to catch up here. 1. Okay, as for acres impacted by ORV's, I don't know how the DEP arrived at that figure. Has anyone investigated? 2. Not clear on the 2 stroke engine issue. What's that all about? The amount of air pollution? 3. The severity of the situation is undoubtedly a...

Sheesh, Bob, :rolleyes:if we :guinness:, and start getting :words:, somebody's bound to mention ORV's:jeffd:. We might as well all plan on getting soaked:dance:.