I just wanted to comment how awesome this picture is! Just when you think you have seen everything! I am not a train expert but I am guessing a Hinkley Locomotive Works 4-4-0?
Atsion train picture.
- Thread starter Trailhead00
- Start date
Trailhead:
I am not certain why you have labeled the photograph displayed in this thread as “Atsion train picture.” Is it because you think the photographer snapped the image at Atsion or is it because you think the locomotive is named “Atsion?”
I can tell you that this photograph constitutes a mystery and I have examined it off and on for some years now. The original photograph is labeled “Roanoke” and, at some point, someone thought they had discerned a “1” on the number plate installed on the smoke box door behind the top hat on the head of the man standing in front of the locomotive. I do not concur with this assessment. The Camden & Atlantic Railroad did own a locomotive named “Roanoke,” which it purchased used, possibly from Richard Osborne, the civil engineer who laid out the Camden & Atlantic. Employed as a construction locomotive, the railroad company sold the locomotive to the Camden & Amboy Railroad in October 1853, which date, along with the fit and trim of the pictured locomotive, precludes this engine from being the one in the photograph. The Atlantic County Historical Society (a.k.a. Atlantic Heritage Center) holds the original photograph, but the details of the locomotive pictured do not seem to fit any known Camden & Atlantic engines. It is a shame, but we cannot be certain that the photograph was even shot in New Jersey. Perhaps the annotation “Roanoke” indicates the photograph came from Virginia. I can tell you that the pictured locomotive likely dates to circa 1870 and the smokestack and short smoke box suggests the engine burned bituminous or soft coal. The recessed cylinder heads and the locking lever on the smoke-box door appear to preclude it being from Baldwin Locomotive Works and I do not think it came from Hinkley. I would have to conduct further research and study a substantial number of photographs before I could even suggest a potential builder for this locomotive. The builder’s plate is likely situated between the driving wheels, which appear to be about 60" in diameter. It also appears the front truck features solid disc wheels.
Best regards,
Jerseyman
I am not certain why you have labeled the photograph displayed in this thread as “Atsion train picture.” Is it because you think the photographer snapped the image at Atsion or is it because you think the locomotive is named “Atsion?”
I can tell you that this photograph constitutes a mystery and I have examined it off and on for some years now. The original photograph is labeled “Roanoke” and, at some point, someone thought they had discerned a “1” on the number plate installed on the smoke box door behind the top hat on the head of the man standing in front of the locomotive. I do not concur with this assessment. The Camden & Atlantic Railroad did own a locomotive named “Roanoke,” which it purchased used, possibly from Richard Osborne, the civil engineer who laid out the Camden & Atlantic. Employed as a construction locomotive, the railroad company sold the locomotive to the Camden & Amboy Railroad in October 1853, which date, along with the fit and trim of the pictured locomotive, precludes this engine from being the one in the photograph. The Atlantic County Historical Society (a.k.a. Atlantic Heritage Center) holds the original photograph, but the details of the locomotive pictured do not seem to fit any known Camden & Atlantic engines. It is a shame, but we cannot be certain that the photograph was even shot in New Jersey. Perhaps the annotation “Roanoke” indicates the photograph came from Virginia. I can tell you that the pictured locomotive likely dates to circa 1870 and the smokestack and short smoke box suggests the engine burned bituminous or soft coal. The recessed cylinder heads and the locking lever on the smoke-box door appear to preclude it being from Baldwin Locomotive Works and I do not think it came from Hinkley. I would have to conduct further research and study a substantial number of photographs before I could even suggest a potential builder for this locomotive. The builder’s plate is likely situated between the driving wheels, which appear to be about 60" in diameter. It also appears the front truck features solid disc wheels.
Best regards,
Jerseyman
Jerseyman,
A member PM'd me about an old post re: Atsion trains. I recall having this photo with some copies of other Atsion photos. I admit that the faux-pax is mine and apologize for the misleading information. I am nowhere near the train afficiniado of the rest of you and did recommend that he look into some of your old posts.
I may not have the info, but at least I know where to send em' when they're looking!
I will change the title on this photo to prevent further confusion. BTW, where on earth would I have gotten this photo in my collection?
Apologies,
Turtle
A member PM'd me about an old post re: Atsion trains. I recall having this photo with some copies of other Atsion photos. I admit that the faux-pax is mine and apologize for the misleading information. I am nowhere near the train afficiniado of the rest of you and did recommend that he look into some of your old posts.
I may not have the info, but at least I know where to send em' when they're looking!
I will change the title on this photo to prevent further confusion. BTW, where on earth would I have gotten this photo in my collection? Apologies,
Turtle
No problem, Turtle. I thought Trailhead had posted the image, but it does not matter. I really wish I could positively identify this photograph, but its subject and location has eluded me for many years. Someday, when I have nothing else to do (yeah, right!), perhaps I will be able to deduce additional information about the image. I will add that matter to my ever-growing list of things to do! :cry: :cry: :cry:
Best regards,
Jerseyman
Best regards,
Jerseyman
Sorry if I caused any confusion. Wish I could be of more help with identifying the train. Regardless, it is a great picture!
Let me try.
The train is an early prototype of what later became widely known as the Choo Choo Train.
The man in the top hat is one Choo Choo Charles who later lent his good name to the marketing of Good and Plenty candies.
Good and Plenty was first manufactured in 1893 by the Quaker City Confectionary Comapny and is now the oldest branded candy in the US of A. It has been said that Charles loved his Good and Plenty and he actually was the first to explore "green technologly" by running his train on Good and Plenty as a substitute for the heavily polluting bituminous coal commonly used in the day.
Charles was also the first to blow through the box and discover it could double as a horn !
Sadly he became a tired, commercial celebrity and appeared angry with his life.
Here is an early water color of Charles fighting off Atsion natives while trying to deliver goods to the village.
The female passenger in the photo is a young Elizabeth White who later became well known for developing numerous cultivars of the locally ubiquitous vaccinium corymbosum plant. (blueberry)
http://www.doug-gray.com/blog/ChooChooCharlie_cover.jpg
Thank you for your time.
Scott
The train is an early prototype of what later became widely known as the Choo Choo Train.
The man in the top hat is one Choo Choo Charles who later lent his good name to the marketing of Good and Plenty candies.
Good and Plenty was first manufactured in 1893 by the Quaker City Confectionary Comapny and is now the oldest branded candy in the US of A. It has been said that Charles loved his Good and Plenty and he actually was the first to explore "green technologly" by running his train on Good and Plenty as a substitute for the heavily polluting bituminous coal commonly used in the day.
Charles was also the first to blow through the box and discover it could double as a horn !
Sadly he became a tired, commercial celebrity and appeared angry with his life.
Here is an early water color of Charles fighting off Atsion natives while trying to deliver goods to the village.
The female passenger in the photo is a young Elizabeth White who later became well known for developing numerous cultivars of the locally ubiquitous vaccinium corymbosum plant. (blueberry)
http://www.doug-gray.com/blog/ChooChooCharlie_cover.jpg
Thank you for your time.
Scott
Scott.....
Only you. Thank you for the early morning laugh-out-loud! :rofl: (very creative).
Turtle
Only you. Thank you for the early morning laugh-out-loud! :rofl: (very creative).
Turtle
Great info, Scott! Didn't know you were so well versed in railroad history.
A couple more posts like this, and we'll be comparing you to the Jerseyman.
John-
A couple more posts like this, and we'll be comparing you to the Jerseyman.
John-
Well done!http://www.aglimpse.com/images/tr/tr420.jpg
Similar? It does have a 1 on front...... OOPS! Zoomed in, has a 3 not a 1...oh well.
Similar? It does have a 1 on front...... OOPS! Zoomed in, has a 3 not a 1...oh well.
Bog:
There are so many different details between the Baldwin catalog photograph that you found and the locomotive that Turtle posted. I do not have time to enumerate all of these differences, so I will name just a few:
The recessed cylinder heads versus the solid plate cylinder head on the Baldwin
There are two domes on top of the boiler versus three on the Baldwin
The name plaque on the cab is rectilinear versus rounded ends on the Baldwin
The steam box is higher and unshouldered on the cylinder versus the Baldwin
The smoke box door features a locking handle versus the Baldwin
There is no builder’s plate on the smoke box versus the Baldwin
Determining the builder of a locomotive by studying photographs is a time-consuming task, but made well worthwhile when you are able to make a positive identity.
Best regards,
Jerseyman