bay days

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
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millville nj
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I have googled "world war 2 gun emplacement" and "old septic tank lids" and can find nothing that matches the object shown here.I pumped crap for a year for a living and probably in that time pumped a hundred septic tanks and never came upon one that looked like this.Why would you have a hole in the lid of the tank.There are baffles entering the tank to knock out jam ups but I have never seen a lid with a hole in the top let alone three holes,the two smaller ones i took for bolt holes and the main center one as where the gun was bolted down to a foundation upon which the object in question sat and was bolted to helping to hold down the gun. I was told these onjects were gun emplacements but i can't remember who told me.Sorry,I"m old but not old enough to remember World War 2.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
2,586
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millville nj
www.youtube.com
Then again looking at the photo there are utility poles and it almost looks like a rectangular structure of some sort sat around this object perhaps made of wood which now has succumbed to a takeover by some sort of mossy seaweed.Coudt this have been a house on stilts under which sat the poop tank.The bay took the house and then tried to take the tank.If this is a tank then the tank should still be under the lid,it could be located by probing.I do not remember any such structures around the identical objects at Moores and Thompsons.Time for me to do some historical aerialing.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,675
4,851
Pines; Bamber area
Me thinks you are mistaking old septic tank lids for gun emplacements, although I can see where the analogy could apply. You can see these gun emplacements still in use at Gandys Beach.

Heh, now that you mention it, those small holes are cleanouts, right? :D
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
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millville nj
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okay the historical aerial consensus.At thompsons there was never a house at the location of the object. Back in 40 there were a few houses in adjoining lots not very far away but none where the object now sets.At Moores there was no houses ever anywhere near the object.In I think it was 63 there were some long black objects nearby,definitely not houses,perhpas trailers? awfully close together for living residences. At Sea Breeze I cannot see the object but know very closely to where it sets and there are houses right on top of the location back in the 50's. or at least very close to the location,maybe not right on top.So Sea Breeze would be a candidate for a septic tank,Thompsons possibly if they ran the pipes into an adjoining lot perhaps a hundred feet away? Bu Moores appears to really out there.There appears to be no houses anywhere near there at any time.Guy? Jerseyman? Anyone here want to chime in?
 

amf

Explorer
May 20, 2006
155
50
Swedesboro
... Bu Moores appears to really out there.There appears to be no houses anywhere near there at any time.Guy? Jerseyman? Anyone here want to chime in?
I recall researching land rights at Moores for some dike work in the 70's, and there were a number of houses. What surprised me at the time was that there was actually another road that had been laid out further into the bay that the one that remained. As an aside, one of the ditches behind Moores Beach was referred to in some of the old deeds as the "slave ditch", presumably having first been dug by slave labor some time ago.
Back to the tank lids, the large lid sat on top of the tank and a smaller square or round lid sat on top of the large center hole. Smaller holes would have been for pump out or, if very small, lifting rings that corroded away.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
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millville nj
www.youtube.com
I wasn't saying there were no houses on Moores beach.I remember when there were. I"m saying according to the Historical Aerials site there appear to have been no houses from 1931 on sitting on the site of the lid/gun emplacemnt.So how did the lid get there.It is quite heavy and I can vouch that it has not moved in 20 years or so unless of course the state just moved it which I have yet to verify.I wish i remembered who told me they were gun emplacements.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,144
Coastal NJ
Al, this may be of some help. Perhaps more info at the tower if it is still open; this info is from around 2009. But from the look and size of the concrete circle, I doubt is held any heavy artillery piece. The web site for Tower 23, take some pictures of the cement platform;

http://www.capemaymac.org/attractions/worldwariilookouttower.php

On the lookout: WWII tower reopens
By Jacqueline L. Urgo
Inquirer Staff Writer
CAPE MAY, N.J. - Shortly after World War II, U.S. intelligence learned that the Germans had planned a Pearl Harbor-like attack on the strategic industrial centers along the Delaware River and Bay, including the shipyards in Philadelphia and Camden, oil refineries in Chester, and the DuPont munitions and chemical plants in Wilmington.
But homeland defense would have been ready. A series of fortified lookout towers and hidden bunkers containing heavy artillery, known as Fort Miles, stretched up and down the New Jersey and Delaware shorelines.
Luckily, the coastal fortification never was tested. The tide of the war shifted in favor of U.S. interests, and the fort's story faded to little more than local lore as businesspeople shifted tourists' focus back to beaches and boardwalks. Over time, the structures became weed-choked and forgotten.
But this weekend, that chapter of military history was revived with the unveiling of a $1.3 million restoration of Fort Miles' last restorable vestige in New Jersey. The six-story concrete edifice known as Fire Control Tower No. 23, about a mile from the popular Cape May Lighthouse, opened Friday for tours.
No. 23 was one of 15 control towers built for Fort Miles - 11 in Delaware and four in New Jersey. It is the only New Jersey tower to survive intact. Towers in North Wildwood and Wildwood Crest were demolished, while one in Cape May was covered over and converted into storage space when the Grand Hotel was built in the 1960s. It was cheaper to build around it than tear down its two-foot-thick walls.
"It's kind of a dream come true to see this project come to fruition after about seven years of planning," said Robert E. Heinly, a World War II historian and museum-education coordinator for the Mid-Atlantic Center for the Arts. "It's great to finally have the chance to be able to share the history that is here with other people."
Heinly said he expected the tower to be a big attraction for veterans and military buffs. But he also said he believed it would help teach school groups the key role the region played in World War II.
The Mid-Atlantic Center administered the restoration, which was paid for by grants from the state Casino Reinvestment Development Authority, the New Jersey Historic Trust, the New Jersey Historical Commission, and a Small Cities Block Grant from the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs.
While the center is a local nonprofit group known mostly for preserving Cape May's Victorian architecture and traditions, it has branched out in recent years, said B. Michael Zuckerman, the center's executive director.
"While we never stray too far from our Victorian roots, we feel our mission really is to preserve history and tell the story of the area in a broader sense," Zuckerman said, noting that tours now include African American history, maritime traditions, and the doo-wop architecture of Wildwood.
Zuckerman said expanding into the region's military past was only natural considering just how much history remained.
The Mid-Atlantic Center spawned the unofficial "South Jersey World War II History Trail" featuring the refurbished Fire Control Tower No. 23, the Cape May County Airport's Naval Air Station Wildwood Hangar No. 1, and a museum in nearby Erma dedicated to the Navy dive-bomber pilots who trained there. It also includes stops at the Millville Army Air Field Museum, where Air Force pilots trained in P-47 Thunderbolts, and a stop at the nation's most decorated warship, the Battleship New Jersey in Camden.
The center offers a narrated two-hour World War II trolley tour and is planning special celebrations at the new tower May 16, Armed Services Day, and on June 6, the 65th anniversary of D-Day, Zuckerman said.
In the meantime, the new tower will be open daily. Visitors may climb to the top upon a newly installed spiral staircase and learn about its history from guides. Military personnel did not have the luxury of a staircase; they used a ladder system built to prevent serious falls.
A hidden jewel within the tower may be a third-level Wall of Honor room where photographs of local men and women who served in World War II are displayed. An audio kiosk features firsthand accounts of war experiences.
At the top, visitors can see the rather rudimentary instruments that "observers," as they were called, would have used to determine firing coordinates for the massive guns on both sides of Delaware Bay.
"I'm really looking forward to being able to climb it," said Dolores Kelly, 62, of Middle Township, who often goes to the nearby Cape May Lighthouse and whose father was a World War II veteran. "It is a real tribute to World War II and the people who fought for our freedom. I'm happy that more people will learn about the war effort that took place here."
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,673
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millville nj
www.youtube.com
Awesome sky shots Whip! is that land I see fourth pic down Delaware? I imagine this is sunset so must be looking west.


46er I have come to the conclusion they are septic tanks.I forget who told me they were gun emplacements but recently Whip found another one right behind a hose that still stands at sea breeze.I am not quite so mad now that they have taken the ones at Moores and Thompsons beaches.Septic tanks are not nearly as historical in my oipinion.I always wondered why U boats would land on Moores or Thompsons beaches and then have to waller a mile or more across the salt marsh to attack.Not a very strategic landing place in my estimation.
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
25,958
8,704
Very nice Bill. You did a nice job capturing the place.
 

bobpbx

Piney
Staff member
Oct 25, 2002
14,675
4,851
Pines; Bamber area
That one dog is a powerful runner.

Can I rant just a bit here? Why is it that the county and state can't work together and get a couple hundred people who are out of work in Bridgeton and Salem and 60 dumpsters, and have them clean that area up at $15 per hour? What would it take, a week? That is only what, $100,000? Get 'er done.
 
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whippoorbill

Explorer
Jul 29, 2003
675
121
66
Bridgeton


It's horseshoe-crab-breeding season along the Delaware Bay. I've been going a little cell-phone-video wacky there at Sea Breeze; below's one of the takes. Anybody who is familiar with walking the beaches when the crabs breed knows that the critters tend to flip and render themselves helpless. I could spend the mid-spring walking up and down the bay coast saving lives. If only somebody would pay me ... I'd quit my job in a nanosecond.

The larger female is flipped. A shining knight flops to her rescue, but I beat him to his prize. The photo above is of the rescued gal speeding toward ShopRite.

 
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