What's next? Are they going to ban me from transporting my rockets on a boat trailer on the parkway?
That would be considered an oversized vehicle...you pay more for that.
Changes IN NJ State Park Regs
- Thread starter Broke Jeep Joe
- Start date
That would be considered an oversized vehicle...you pay more for that.
I just received this from my friend and site member Y Buc-Bill regarding potential banning of dual sport motorcycles in the parks based on these proposed regulation amendments.
http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=61632696&queueid=[capwiz:queue_id]
http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=61632696&queueid=[capwiz:queue_id]
Motorcycles have been a part of the barrens for years and in reality do very little damage. The FFS in one non forest fire day can do more than motorcycles do in a lifetime. Are they going to try and stop my "car" from being out there because it is not designed to run in the woods? Who are these people that think these things up?
Guy
Guy
This specific revision is a ticking time bomb. Every enduro club and rider forum has been exploding about this regulation since it was a rumor. This one change in wording has the potential to cause more than keeping riders out of the woods. Businesses, clubs, life styles and revenue will suffer or cease to be. The problem with the DEP, is that the legislature of New Jersey has given its responsibility to govern over to officials who have not been elected and who are not accountable who are writing regulations that restrict our freedoms on public land.
There is such a thing a responsible land use management and officials need to utilize this option, instead of being lazy protectionists and simply banning what the citizens of the state do.
(For some reason this morning , this revision hit a nerve with me.
)
How many folks have submitted comments to the DEP about this?
Maybe we can come up with some sort of boilerplate text that people can use to submit as their comments?
Maybe we can come up with some sort of boilerplate text that people can use to submit as their comments?
thanks for that link Scott. You know I'm writing in about this. If you can come up with some sort of "boilerplate text" Ben, that would be great. As for #10 in the regs...arent there about a million botanical expeditions going on all the time. Does the PPA get specific permission each time? I understand the state is concerned about disturbance but it seems the rule could be more specific. It seems to me that they are sensitive to putting to many regs on paper and are trying to reduce the visual effect of say, 150 seperate regs, by putting a bunch of activitys in a single numerical point.
Jeff
Jeff
How can you afford to pay the toll to drag that trailer around behind you?What? I can't shoot any more rockets off in the pine barrens? What's next? Are they going to ban me from transporting my rockets on a boat trailer on the parkway?
One thing occurred to me last night. The DEP gets an awful lot of money from hunting permits. How can you hunt if you can't drive through the state forests and WMAs? Maybe they'll have an exemption for people who have valid hunting permits?
While the ORV community can't lobby it's way out of a paper bag, the sportsmen's community can. I'd be surprised if the DEP could keep Jeeps/SUVs/Trucks/Cars out of the parks once the hunters get involved.
While the ORV community can't lobby it's way out of a paper bag, the sportsmen's community can. I'd be surprised if the DEP could keep Jeeps/SUVs/Trucks/Cars out of the parks once the hunters get involved.
I'll admit I didn't follow all the links above, but I thought the DEP change only affected few specific types of motorcycles (maybe only one type)? How are we making a leap from that to banning Jeeps/SUVs/Trucks/Cars?
Does the state have some future vision they are working towards, or are they just winging it. seems like they are working both sides. Promoting development of private lands and locking down public.
Several people have written to me privately in a panic. I can see their point. The ORV problem is not coming from the people riding dual-sports around the pines. Once they ban those bikes, it makes sense to me that they're going to come after the Jeeps/SUV's/trucks.
I, for one, would like to know the logic behind the changes that they're proposing. How can one "comment" on the changes when we don't know why the changes are being proposed in the first place?
My understanding from several enduro club members is that the clubs have been having a very hard time getting permits for events and that the mentality is that the state doesn't want any activity in or on public land. Brendan Byrne State Forest was the specific area that was being discussed. The DEP doesn't want any bikes riding through the forest . After listening to what the members had to say, the attitude wasn't just anti-offroad but anti everything - just stay out and we will close the forests.
Interesting. I would like to hear a first hand report from somebody who doesn't have a dog (or dirt bike) in the race though. What does the PPA say about all this?
I, for one, would like to know the logic behind the changes that they're proposing. How can one "comment" on the changes when we don't know why the changes are being proposed in the first place?[/quote]
Exactly, why are these regulatione bring proposed. It's about context, what is their goal?
Exactly, why are these regulatione bring proposed. It's about context, what is their goal?
Well he is going to have a bias, which was my point. If they're going to ban your dirt bike, you are naturally going to tell everybody the sky is falling. And maybe it IS falling - don't get me wrong. But I'd like to hear from somebody who doesn't have a personal stake, which is why I'm curious what the PPA says.
You'd think it would be one of their "hot issues". Maybe it's just too new, or everybody is away on vacation now. But they had enough time to send me a letter yesterday asking for a SECOND donation this year.
http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/protection/hotissues/[edit]Just found this, although I think it's old: http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/protection/hotissues/ecological/offroadvehicles/
Sorry to say I don't even know what a "dual sport" is. Would I call it a "dirt bike" if one drove past me? Is it licensed for on-road use?
well I guess they just saved me a bunch of money. I was gonna buy a jeep so I could take my wife and kids on a ride through the woods
Boyd,
A dual sport is a fully street legal motorcycle capabale of being ridden off road. All the major Japanese manufactures have multiple models in their lines and there are high end dual sport BMW's, Ducati's and others.
BobPBX rides one as does Woodjin and many more on this site. The bike usuuay has more suspension travel, a spark arrestor and a little more aggressive tread pattern in the tires. I used to ride them in the late 70's and went to a full non-street legal motocross bike for woods riding in the early 80's. Now it's just a big bloated Harley for me and the bride.
The regs, as proposed, show frightening indications of ignorance about off road vehicles, especially motorcycles, in the language selected.
I never thought I would see "crotch rocket" used as a colloquialism in a legal draft. By the way, crotch rockets (whatever you would imagine them to be) are exempt from the definition of off road vehicles in the proposed rule changes. (see page 5 of 82)
http://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/proposals/20120716a.pdf
Someone get me out of this State. Please.
Thanks Scott, that helps.
Just took the time to read the full PPA recommendations (from Jan 2011) here: http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/downloads/pinelandsalliance_576.pdf
That seemed pretty reasonable, urging enforcement of existing laws, closing access to certain sensitive areas if needed and keeping vehicles on established roads. Doesn't seem like it would be related to these new regulations, is it?
Just took the time to read the full PPA recommendations (from Jan 2011) here: http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/downloads/pinelandsalliance_576.pdf
That seemed pretty reasonable, urging enforcement of existing laws, closing access to certain sensitive areas if needed and keeping vehicles on established roads. Doesn't seem like it would be related to these new regulations, is it?