Goshen in Camden or Burlington?

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
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Atco, NJ
That's great that you get out there with your son. Does he like doing the explore?
Yes. A couple of our spots to explore were ones he picked out. My daughter does too and goes most of the time too.
E1E2BAD3-2C5A-45D8-B145-E662FB6D4F70.jpeg
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,569
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Atco, NJ
Consider Getting him a field shirt instead of flannel so the briars have less chance of grabbing (nylon or polyester or blend).
Yes I have. We have only been doing small patches of briars at a time. I’m easing him in lol. He doesn’t even want to wear gloves most of the time. It was kind of thick in a couple of spots there so he’s learning that proper clothing and gloves help. He will be a pro in no time.
 
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smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
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Atco, NJ
I was looking for a stone today along the Goshen Mill Stream

I have mentioned this before I believe but further in the deed it mentions a place called Goshen Gap.
Goshen, Goshen Neck, Goshen Gap and Goshen Mill Stream. Now I’m starting to get confused :)
 

Teegate

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I worked on the deed that says Goshen Gap and I now know where Goshen Gap is located. Not where one might think. I know I am correct because the next 4 locations I already know about and the 1860 deed matches perfectly in distance and directions. The stone mentioned at Goshen Gap is no longer there as well as the Wharton survey monument placed there when the state bought Wharton. Too much disturbance over the years. There is however evidence at the location where the stone was as I was there yesterday.

gap1.jpeg


Anyway, the location of Goshen Gap in 1860 was here. The bogs obviously were not there in 1860.

 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,342
328
Near Mt. Misery
S_J,

Judging by river-meander structure, there appears to be much fill added to your site at the red arrow and its corresponding bank to the south. Note the cripple just to the east of the cross-hairs on your lidar imagery. Judging by the surrounding land-surface structure, the new Goshen Pond could be templated on a natural river depression first exploited by beaver.

As for ore extraction, my limited experience is that ore extraction for iron production was mostly done away from larger river banks, and instead was collected in places like savannah terraces or cripple seeps. Meadow ore came in the form of scum, loam, or seed. Massive ore was a poor form that was mostly used as building stone.
I’ve seen loam ore and seed ore, mostly loam, along the river banks along the mullica opposite the canal.
There is documentation that at least during the Drinker era of Atsion furnace they would open the dam to drain Atsion lake for the purpose of bog iron extraction along the original river banks.
Considering that documentation existed to this practice, it led me to the hypothesis that a diversion canal around sawmills would provide further opportunity for bog iron extraction.
I’ve seen huge deposits of massive ore further down on the mullica in the Lock’s bridge vicinity.
The fens that lay adjacent to the river, and seeps, seem to indicate evidence of extraction.
Could it be that the more fertile savannas and cripples had been “mined out” and the iron masters were trying to capitalize on what resources were available.
Spung man, have you noticed a prevalence of massive ore on the river banks over loam and seed?
 
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Spung-Man

Explorer
Jan 5, 2009
994
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Richland, NJ
www.researchgate.net
I worked on the deed that says Goshen Gap and I now know where Goshen Gap is located. Not where one might think. I know I am correct because the next 4 locations I already know about and the 1860 deed matches perfectly in distance and directions. The stone mentioned at Goshen Gap is no longer there as well as the Wharton survey monument placed there when the state bought Wharton. Too much disturbance over the years. There is however evidence at the location where the stone was as I was there yesterday.

View attachment 19319

Anyway, the location of Goshen Gap in 1860 was here. The bogs obviously were not there in 1860.

Great work! If we know where Old Goshen is and where Goshen Gap is, then perhaps this would be Goshen Neck—

1676563407980.png

The gap is the lowland area between higher relict plateau.
 

Spung-Man

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Jan 5, 2009
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Richland, NJ
www.researchgate.net
I’ve seen loam ore and seed ore, mostly loam, along the river banks along the mullica opposite the canal.
There is documentation that at least during the Drinker era of Atsion furnace they would open the dam to drain Atsion lake for the purpose of bog iron extraction along the original river banks.
Considering that documentation existed to this practice, it led me to the hypothesis that a diversion canal around sawmills would provide further opportunity for bog iron extraction.
I’ve seen huge deposits of massive ore further down on the mullica in the Lock’s bridge vicinity.
The fens that lay adjacent to the river, and seeps, seem to indicate evidence of extraction.
Could it be that the more fertile savannas and cripples had been “mined out” and the iron masters were trying to capitalize on what resources were available.
Spung man, have you noticed a prevalence of massive ore on the river banks over loam and seed?
Woodjin, that is interesting. It would make sense to collect ore from places away from pesky tree roots like savannahs and drained lake-beds. Cripples, too, were often sparse in tree roots, as apparently was the case along the "Ore Road" south of Deep Run. Weymouth ore beds west of what is now Makepeace Lake petered out early on. Instead, ore was brought in from other places, sometimes out of state, to make up for the ore deficit. Ore was barged into Weymouth's port of Mays Landing and then transported to Weymouth on a wooden tramway and pulled by mule-teams.

Massive ore was collected at "stone holes" along stream banks (e.g., Lummis Run above South River, below Bennetts Mill on Manumuskin River), but I was told that this was primarily for building material. Massive stone had a high quartz content that produced lots of slag and had to be laboriously crushed by stamping before use. I'm under the impression that it was the lack of charcoal that hampered bog iron production more than the lack of iron ore—at least below the Mullica.
 
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Oriental

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Apr 21, 2005
256
140
General Elias Wright came to the same conclusion as Teegate regarding the location of Goshen Gap. He states "The head of Wissickman Creek . . .and the head of a stream called 'Green Limb' . . . are close together and where they come close together seems to have been called 'The Gapp'"

The title chain for 700 acres originally surveyed to John Burr confirms that Goshen Neck sat below the gap and between the Atsion River and Wissickman Creek though I am not certain if what was called Goshen Neck ever extended below the old Goshen Mill Pond.
 

Oriental

Explorer
Apr 21, 2005
256
140
Records indicate that Goshen Sawmill was built in 1748 or 1749. The downstream mill that has been called the "new mill" in this thread was called Little Mill and was built by Salter and his partners. It was operating in 1785 if not several years earlier. Nothing in the property records indicates that there were any other mills between Jackson Road and Atsion Village. Admittedly, the structures found at the head of the old mill pond and at the lower end of the canal are begging for an explanation. The fact that the canal (along the east side of the pond) is not depicted on the map that Spungman shared (nor on other survey maps) suggests that it did not exist during the iron era. I suspect that those who guessed that the canal diverted water around the mill pond bottom that was being used for cranberry culture are on to something.
 

Teegate

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The Green Limb is the stream that exited the William Braddock and William Braddock Jr. property here.


Various deeds in that area all mention it. This one that I have been working on called it the Green Limb Cedar Swamp.

green.jpg


And last night I ran all of the metes and bounds and from the beginning behind the trailer park using my calculations of 5:45 CCW all the way to the Tusco Musco and back across the woods to Goshen Gap I came within 96 feet of the actual location proving to myself Goshen Gap is where I said it was.

deed gap.jpg



And this very same deed tells us that at this exact spot in 1860 there was an "Old Field" at William Braddocks property.


Old Field.jpg



 
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Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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General Elias Wright came to the same conclusion as Teegate regarding the location of Goshen Gap. He states "The head of Wissickman Creek . . .and the head of a stream called 'Green Limb' . . . are close together and where they come close together seems to have been called 'The Gapp'"

The title chain for 700 acres originally surveyed to John Burr confirms that Goshen Neck sat below the gap and between the Atsion River and Wissickman Creek though I am not certain if what was called Goshen Neck ever extended below the old Goshen Mill Pond.

The Green Limb is the stream that exited the William Braddock and William Braddock Jr. property here.


Various deeds in that area all mention it. This one that I have been working on called it the Green Limb Cedar Swamp. And Jessica years ago found the Braddock stone laying flat in the middle of a road there along the Green Limb.

green.jpg



And last night I ran all of the metes and bounds and from the beginning behind the trailer park using my calculations of 5:45 CCW all the way to the Tusco Musco and back across the woods to Goshen Gap I came within 96 feet of the actual location proving to myself Goshen Gap is where I said it was.

deed gap.jpg



And this very same deed tells us that at this exact spot in 1860 (link below) there was an "Old Field" at William Braddocks property.


Old Field.jpg



 
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Spung-Man

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A good place to go is the Searchable Databases and Records Request Forms at Early Land Records, 1650–1900s. Goshen Neck properties listed there seem to be on the Burlington County side.


Also, in Glimpses of the Past (Flemming 2010) there are notes on the property at 627 Atsion Road, Shamong Township. He writes that this property is "part of a larger tract called Goshen Neck". That location seems to confirm where Goshen Neck is.


There is a deed between Samuel B. Coughlin of Philadelphia, and Michael G. Landis of Hammonton, for a sum of $15,000.00, tracts of land in Burlington and Atlantic Counties which make up the Atsion Estate. Book P, Page 568 – MARCH 1, 1860. Michael Landis is Charles K (Kline) Landis' money bags. CK is a founder of Elwood (1854), Hammonton (1857), and Vineland (1861).

Does anyone know anything about a Clines Tavern on Goshen Neck? Is it possible that Cline and C. Kline Landis might share family ties? The first thing Charle Kline Landis does in Elwood if build a tavern (1855). Wright is the surveyor there too.
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,569
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Atco, NJ
Records indicate that Goshen Sawmill was built in 1748 or 1749. The downstream mill that has been called the "new mill" in this thread was called Little Mill and was built by Salter and his partners. It was operating in 1785 if not several years earlier. Nothing in the property records indicates that there were any other mills between Jackson Road and Atsion Village. Admittedly, the structures found at the head of the old mill pond and at the lower end of the canal are begging for an explanation. The fact that the canal (along the east side of the pond) is not depicted on the map that Spungman shared (nor on other survey maps) suggests that it did not exist during the iron era. I suspect that those who guessed that the canal diverted water around the mill pond bottom that was being used for cranberry culture are on to something.
My first thought was that the canal was for cranberry operations but could have been repurposed from another use. After exploring the canal at the New Pond (Little Mill) the canal seems to be similar but there were no cranberries there.
CFAB615A-3219-4E37-98C6-81E8965D7727.jpeg

FAE20C18-1A5E-4A1B-8A81-35D911912EE9.jpeg

And where it connects to Salters Ditch
1166B1A7-799E-4DB4-BCB7-1D8AE9482242.jpeg

There did not seem to anything to let it flow under Rairitan. There was a metal pipe where it crossed Sandy Causeway and pieces of concrete probably from something older. Sandy causeway is a much older road so it was possibly out of service before the railroad came through.
 
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stiltzkin

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Feb 8, 2022
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Medford
Does anyone know anything about a Clines Tavern on Goshen Neck? Is it possible that Cline and C. Kline Landis might share family ties? The first thing Charle Kline Landis does in Elwood if build a tavern (1855). Wright is the surveyor there too.

If it helps at all, Old Inns and Taverns in West Jersey has this:

Ingin or Indian King Tavern.
At what is now called "Cline's," on the road from Long-A-Coming (Berlin) to Atsion, ten miles from the former and two miles from the latter place, Ephraim Cline kept a tavern early in the nineteenth century. Cline, in 1792, married Rachel Salter, daughter of Joseph Salter, one of the owners of the Atsion Iron Works and his house was a favorite resort of the workmen from these works.

So, Salter...Salter's Ditch?
 
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