Goshen in Camden or Burlington?

[stiltzkin]

I read that as, "I have never seen a series of canals that transport and bypass water, typically with a reservoir in a bog that was built right into the watershed."

 

[bobpbx]

I read that as, "I have never seen a series of canals that transport and bypass water, typically with a reservoir in a bog that was built right into the watershed."

Yes, you are correct. I misread it.

 

[smoke_jumper]

You need a GoPro and place it underwater. I have one and can do that if you want.

Sound cool I didn’t think of that. I could see it better then the pictures came out. I actually thought trying to hold up my polarized sunglasses up to the phone but I left them at home lol

 

[Spung-Man]

I assumed Boyer, taking notes in the 1930s that became Old Inns and Taverns, meant the old route of Jackson/Atsion Rd, this:

View attachment 19354

Since this really does connect Berlin and at least a point close to Atsion. This still works with the identified location. His description just wasn't that clear.

Is it possible that there was an even older, curvier alignment to an old Atsion Road, with a corresponding older tavern? That is apparently the case with Doughtys Tavern in Milmay and the Blue Bell Tavern above Downstown. A long time ago Budd Wilson was asked about the location of the original Cline's tavern and he said it was off the modern road, pointing into the woods west of the new Atsion Road. Maybe I misunderstood him.

S-M

 

[smoke_jumper]

Is it possible that there was an even older, curvier alignment to an old Atsion Road, with a corresponding older tavern? That is apparently the case with Doughtys Tavern in Milmay and the Blue Bell Tavern above Downstown. A long time ago Budd Wilson was asked about the location of the original Cline's tavern and he said it was off the modern road, pointing into the woods west of the new Atsion Road. Maybe I misunderstood him.

S-M

I have found a few possible cellar holes along old Atsion Road and in the surrounding area. Some seem back off the road a ways. Also several of the roads around there were widened for feeder strips. Those disturbed anything that was close to the road. Also I’m sure we’re talking a span of over 100 years so trying to figure out the age of everything could be difficult.
I’m thinking this oak tree looks like it started out it’s life in the corner of a structure. It’s right on the edge of a cellar hole too.

There’s a lot of history in this area and with all the input here I’m piecing some of it together.

 

[Teegate]

I will look into this stone and where it may be.

 

[smoke_jumper]

I will look into this stone and where it may be.

View attachment 19416

There’s a good chance I’ve been close to that one lol

 

[Teegate]

There’s a good chance I’ve been close to that one lol

I first need to figure out one of the other locations either before or after that one and then I may have a chance of finding it. It is a huge deed going from Winslow/Atco past Apple Pie hill to the hill Bob just mentioned in another post and all the way back to Atco. There are 102 locations.

 

[smoke_jumper]

I first need to figure out one of the other locations either before or after that one and then I may have a chance of finding it. It is a huge deed going from Winslow/Atco past Apple Pie hill to the hill Bob just mentioned in another post and all the way back to Atco. There are 102 locations.

I realized it was big when I read 73 chains and 59 links.

 

[Teegate]

I realized it was big when I read 73 chains and 59 links.

John.... It is the Atsion Tract deed and I will do my best to try and find that stone mentioned by Goshen.

 

[Teegate]

Does anyone know anything about a Clines Tavern on Goshen Neck? Is it possible that Cline and C. Kline Landis might share family ties? The first thing Charle Kline Landis does in Elwood if build a tavern (1855). Wright is the surveyor there too.

Mark,

In June of 1887 Richard J. Byrnes was appointed trustee to manage, take care of and sell the property of the Atsion Tract. In the survey it says this.

Look over your map and you can see that the Bear pond is located in the map below at the red arrow, the stone located at the orange arrow and the new road from Clines tavern to Indian Mills is the green arrow. Today it is 3 Bridge Road. So we know this road is new in 1887 and at one time went to Clines Tavern.

NJPineBarrens Maps

maps.njpinebarrens.com

It is interesting to note the Wharton survey shows the stone on the east side of the road so I would have to assume the road has slightly been altered since 1877. I looked for that stone years ago and could not find it.

 

[smoke_jumper]

This post on Old Goshen caught my interest because of its association with meadow or savannah habitat that was once likely present by the Atsiunk River. According to a 1758 deed to Abraham Leeds (West Jersey Loose Records #60711) there are two unnamed cripples “near ye head of a Saw Mill pond called Goshion Mill.” Within this deed the Atsion River is called the Atsiunk. A pond head is the upper waterbody part where water inflows into it.

Cripples are often short Pleistocene channels that generally lack a modern (Holocene) stream incision. Instead, their channel bottoms flow as a wide sheet that drains into a stream or river, often intermittently. They are the Pine Barrens version of the periglacial dell—as in the Farmer in the Dell… The ancient Leeds deed is difficult to decipher but I think the “westerly” (left) cripple feature is the Leed’s survey channel between Hopplefoot and Good Water Branches. The “easterly” (right) cripple feature is likely the middle or upper channel above the straight road to Longacoming. The easterly feature of Leed’s contains “Some plains or meadow ground,” which is probably wetland savannah.

View attachment 19240
​

Early on savannah meadowland once found along Pleistocene stream terraces throughout the Pine Barrens was used for grazing, especially by cattle. A hopple was a leg tether restraint used when cattle were set out to graze. Below is an excerpt from an undated c. 1854 wall map of what appears to be Atsion Furnace lands that places the Old Goshen Mill Pond. This map may be drawn by Clement and resides in the Special Collections at Bjork Library at Stockton University. Information from both the Leeds survey and the Clement(?) map has been annotated onto one of Boyd’s awesome amazing maps above.

View attachment 19242
​

It’s work in progress so I hope I have this right. There’s lots of land-surface processes going on here so am eager to hear your thoughts.

S-M

Spung Man, Could the two unnamed cripples be here:

NJPineBarrens Maps

maps.njpinebarrens.com

They are a bit away from the Atsion river and Goshen pond but those would be the closest identifiable landmarks at the time. I also suspect Goshen Neck may have been closer to there then the actual pond as well.

 

[Brown village]

Is it possible that there was an even older, curvier alignment to an old Atsion Road, with a corresponding older tavern? That is apparently the case with Doughtys Tavern in Milmay and the Blue Bell Tavern above Downstown. A long time ago Budd Wilson was asked about the location of the original Cline's tavern and he said it was off the modern road, pointing into the woods west of the new Atsion Road. Maybe I misunderstood him.

S-M

I'm late to this discussion however it's fascinating--and I've spent two hours poring over some of these maps!

If it's any help- and kind of a question too- my understanding is the intersection of current Atsion Rd/Oakshade Rd and Jackson Rd was the location of the Sign of the Buck/Smith's/Piper's/Dellett Tavern, starting sometime around the 1785-1795 period.

I always thought Atsion Rd followed the one stagecoach route (the southerly one), is this correct?

 

[Spung-Man]

Spung Man, Could the two unnamed cripples be here:

NJPineBarrens Maps

maps.njpinebarrens.com

They are a bit away from the Atsion river and Goshen pond but those would be the closest identifiable landmarks at the time. I also suspect Goshen Neck may have been closer to there then the actual pond as well.

Now, when I purchase deeds at the State Archives, they are posted for all to download. Here's the deed citing the cripples.

https://www.state.nj.us/state/darm/EarlyLandRecordsPDF/PWESJ004_1758_Leeds_Abraham_Survey_60711.pdf

I've attached a draft translation of the deed for those who have trouble reading ye said curs-ed cursive.

 

[smoke_jumper]

Now, when I purchase deeds at the State Archives, they are posted for all to download. Here's the deed citing the cripples.

https://www.state.nj.us/state/darm/EarlyLandRecordsPDF/PWESJ004_1758_Leeds_Abraham_Survey_60711.pdf

View attachment 19597​

I've attached a draft translation of the deed for those who have trouble reading ye said curs-ed cursive.

Thanks for sharing this. I didn’t realize how small the lots were for the deed you mentioned. I guess those aren’t the cripples after all.

 

[Spung-Man]

Smoke_Jumper,

These old deeds are confounding, aren't they? I'm always amazed a Teegate's knack at stone finding. My guess is based on the Atsionk River being the same as the current Atsion River. However, this deed states that both branches are in Gloucester County. How can that be? Maybe the Atsionk River was a channel parallel to the main Little Egg Harbor River that has since silted with Goshen Pond damming.

I am under the impression that the Plains mentioned are really savannah meadow.

S-M

 

[stiltzkin]

County borders have changed many times. Camden County didn't exist until 1844. In 1759, the nearby border would have been between Burlington and Gloucester. The Atsionk became the Atsion (or "Little Egg Harbor"), which became the Mullica, no?

If that was all already obvious, then apologies, just following along!

 

[Brown village]

If it's any help, Atlantic County split off from Gloucester County in 1837

 

[Brown village]

County borders have changed many times. Camden County didn't exist until 1844. In 1759, the nearby border would have been between Burlington and Gloucester. The Atsionk became the Atsion (or "Little Egg Harbor"), which became the Mullica, no?

If that was all already obvious, then apologies, just following along!

That website is fascinating, thank you for sharing -

 

[Spung-Man]

Another possibility is that two parallel channels could have once occupied the same Little Egg Harbor valley. We see this on Route 54 between Hammonton and Folsom, where Baileys Branch is an auxiliary channel to the Penny Pot Branch. The highway bridge sign—in error—designates Baileys Branch as the true Penny Pot Branch. This is a common phenomenon in the Pine Barrens that drives mapmakers (and people who want to be right) mad.

BTW, that's Penny Pott in 1734, probably a namesake of Thomas Potts who receives a warrant there for 100 acres in 1718.