He'll be gone soon.

[BEHR655]

In response to Bob's query, "How so?"

Who's reality? I for one think Bush has a better grasp of it than most of our self centered population.

Bush has the good sense to realize that the radical Muslims that wish us dead are not going to just go away. They hate us. We are infidels in their eyes and they have a death sentence for us. Osama Bin Laden did not attack us on 9/11, radical Muslims attacked us, they were merely lead by Bin Laden. Anyone who thinks that we should only concentrate on capturing Bin Laden is foolish.
People complain about Bush's "Stay the course" mantra. Unfortunately the "course" has been hampered every step of the way by the Democratic party. Shame on them. Had the Republicans acted that way during WWII we may well be speaking German now. But we stuck together and we kicked some Axis ass.
The Dems tell us that the war in Iraq is breeding radicals and is making us less safe. Bullshit. The war is not creating radicals. They've been here all along. There is no country called "Radical Muslimabad" so if we can gather them in one place, I see that as a good thing. Are we less safe than before 9/11? Hell no, we are much safer. It may not seem that way but before 9/11 we (the populace) did not know we were not safe.

We've grown soft. We're at our end. Our grandchildren will live in a world where the USA is a second rate country, no longer the world leader.

Throughout history it has been the fate of all world powers. They grow fat, become soft, become complacent. Power struggles and in-fighting and all the while their enemies were licking their chops, waiting for a chance at the soft underbelly.
We are on the threshold of failure as a world power and it's not because of the war in Iraq. It is because of our lack of resolve to win the war in Iraq. Shame on us.

You blame Bush. I blame the Dems and the soft Americans.

See above

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Many of you may think, by my stance on this, that I am a war monger but I am not. I, like most people, wish there were no wars. But there are wars. They have been with us since the beginning, they're with us now and will be with us until the end. It is our nature.
There are people that want to kill us. Building them some Walmarts is not going to fix that.

Steve

 

[BEHR655]

We should not lose sight of the fact that many were sounding the WMD alarm in Iraq long before anyone ever heard of George W Bush.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

Discuss...

Hey, wait a minute! Don't bring our beloved Bill Clinton into this. Why, he is the greatest president we've ever had. After all, didn't he teach America's daughters that BJ,s aren't sex?




Just kidding.

Steve

 

[gagliarchives]

I am not a warmonger myself, but as Steve said, the radicals could care less about you. They want you dead. 'Waaaah waaah, no war, get out of Iraq..' Meanwhile you are the first one they would kill. People in America have it so good, yes I said it, we have it better than any other nation, that we have nothing better to do but bitch. For example. The majority of Democrats bitch and complain about the enviornment while they are out filling up their gas guzzling SUV's getting 3 mpg. That's almost as funny and profound as John Kerry slandering his "band of brothers" before Congress. Then lying about having been in Cambodia on Christmas eve in 1968 and being sent there by Nixon (who wasn't President yet), hearing the Vietnamese "sing Christmas carols" (the Vietnamese are Buddhists and don't celebrate Christmas). Stuck in Iraq? Shame on you you medal throwing coward. (by the way, he had somebody get those medals after he threw them over)
Steve said it, the Democrats have constantly hindered any easy way for us to stay the 'course'. Smokescreens and distraction tactics.Do I agree with everyhing Bush has done? No. Do I believe he sticks to his guns and never waivers? Yes. Even moderate Democrats agree with that.
To think if we acted like this 50 years ago, we might be very well speaking German or Russian. Instead of being united like we were for 3 weeks after 9/11, you have yahoos like Howard Dean spreading outrageous lies about the President of the United States and the events of 9/11 only admitting after being caught that he never believed the lies he was spreading and only found them to be "interesting." Holy christ. Ted Kennedy was no better. This man has room to judge the President? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. The same man that clung to his family name after leaving his "female companion" to die a miserable death while he swam to shore to sober up before calling the police?
Michael Moore mocks my friends who are fighting overseas? (And not just in Iraq) This party, haha this 'party' quote en quote, gave a standing ovation to his movie that they know is nothing more than a lie-filled, anti-American propaganda.

Bleeding hearters, and the secretive indies(usually on the left) call the Republicans liars, but all liars call the other side liars that's a given. It's hard to call Bush a liar because he agreed with Clinton who wasn't a liar, Chirac who isn't a liar, and literally every other intelligence agency on the planet with regard to Saddam's WMDs. So all in all, something was up. But no, it's all a lie that we and the Brits made up...and we are the evil ones that massacared thousands of people because they were Shiite muslim and not part of the Sunni minority.

I will still stick to my guns. And if I didn't know anything about politics, I would have been sold on two words last year. Jim McGreevy. Ugh, I get sick even saying his name.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

I think it's hilarious that people will blame just the current president without reading the facts.

Who here has blamed Bush only?

The fact is that this administration's policy in the Iraq war is a dismal failure and, despite this, they are sticking to their guns and are refusing to change their policy. This tells me that we are in dire need of a change in leadership. Pointing to the faults of previous administrations is fine and all, given that you don't do so with intention of masking what is rightfully the responsibility of the current adminstration.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Steve wrote:

Bush has the good sense to realize that the radical Muslims that wish us dead are not going to just go away. They hate us. We are infidels in their eyes and they have a death sentence for us.

Who denies this obvious fact? And the reaosn they hate us so much is because they don't want us on their "sacred soil." We have decades of self-destructive policy in the Middle East under our belt, and we need to change this policy.

Osama Bin Laden did not attack us on 9/11, radical Muslims attacked us, they were merely lead by Bin Laden. Anyone who thinks that we should only concentrate on capturing Bin Laden is foolish.

Agreed.

People complain about Bush's "Stay the course" mantra. Unfortunately the "course" has been hampered every step of the way by the Democratic party. Shame on them.

How is anyone but the Bush administration responsible for not taking heed to the advice of our generals? How is anyone but this administration responsible for not providing our soldiers a winning strategy? How is anyone but this administration responsible for not giving our soldiers the armor that they need? How is anyone but this administration responsible for persisting in a failed policy and marching on with eyes wide shut?

The Dems tell us that the war in Iraq is breeding radicals and is making us less safe. Bullshit. The war is not creating radicals. They've been here all along.

That these radicals have been there all along is not at odds with the fact that this war is only breeding more hatred for the U.S. and creating more recruits for the terrorists. Do you actually think that the terrorists are not finding more and more reasons to vow destruction to America because of this war?

Are we less safe than before 9/11? Hell no, we are much safer.

What makes you think that?

 

[BEHR655]

Who here has blamed Bush only?

The fact is that this administration's policy in the Iraq war is a dismal failure and, despite this, they are sticking to their guns and are refusing to change their policy. This tells me that we are in dire need of a change in leadership. Pointing to the faults of previous administrations is fine and all, given that you don't do so with intention of masking what is rightfully the responsibility of the current adminstration.

Dismal failure? Maybe you are right. Last night on the news they were talking about all the new Iraqi game shows and reality shows on Iraqi TV. They are doomed.

Steve

 

[gagliarchives]

Yes, and the fact that Afghan women can go to school without being beaten in the streets as well. God forbid. Women having freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan? I better move to Newfoundland. How dare we.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Gaglia, Iraq's as pretty as a Sunday school picnic, isn't? Maybe we should move there.

 

[gagliarchives]

Yeah. Nothing good has happened at all there. I think the fact that people have electrical power in Iraq for the first time in 25 years is a travesty.

And by the way, lotta my friends are serving there and although it's bad in the triangle, there are a lot of good things going on Iraq that the media does not cover. Oh wait that's right, Ted Turner doesn't want you to see that.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Folks, political disagreements aside, we can all get together and have a beer or two over a nice chat about the Pines when I get back to Jersey, right?

 

[gagliarchives]

Dam right yo.

I hate politics anyway. But I'd rather know the facts than what the media feeds me. All in all, we do more good things in the world than bad, but the main fact we can argue about it without having our heads cut off and put on a stick outside our towns is a big bonus.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Freedom is good, Gaglia. There is no quarrel there.

Yeah. Nothing good has happened at all there. I think the fact that people have electrical power in Iraq for the first time in 25 years is a travesty.

It's nice that we spent billions of dollars restoring their electricity after we shut it down during the initial invasion, but you might want to check your sources for your claim.

 

[BEHR655]

Steve wrote:
We have decades of self-destructive policy in the Middle East under our belt, and we need to change this policy.

Please don't get me started on Israel.

How is anyone but the Bush administration responsible for not taking heed to the advice of our generals? How is anyone but this administration responsible for not providing our soldiers a winning strategy? How is anyone but this administration responsible for not giving our soldiers the armor thatthey need? How is anyone but this administration responsible for persisting ina failed policy and marching on with eyes wide shut?

You seem to be under the impression that an administration can act solely on it's own. That is what the Dems would have you believe, until they are in power of course.

That these radicals have been there all along is not at odds with the fact that this war is only breeding more hatred for the U.S. and creating more recruits for the terrorists. Do you actually think that the terrorists are not finding more and more reasons to vow destruction to America because of this war?

We sprayed a little Raid and the roaches came out of the cracks. Are there more on the surface now than there was before? You betchya! Hand me that can of Raid.
The question is, do you think that these terrorists loved us before the war?

What makes you think that?

How are you less safe?
We now know who our enemies are. Before 9/11 we were sitting here fat and happy, unaware of the danger. We were not safe and we did not know it. Now we are aware and have put safeguards in place.
We may not feel safer but indeed we are.

Steve

 

[kingofthepines]

I guess this let's the Bush team off the hook, eh?

I'm beginning to see that facts carry virtually no importance in the debates but I thought I'd add a few more thoughts on the war.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following...

FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy...started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has ....liberated two countries; crushed the Taliban; crippled al-Qaida; eliminated Libyas nuclear program, and captured Saddam Hussein who slaughtered 800,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take the Iraqi army than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick.

WW2 was 63 years ago and we still have troops in Europe and Japan. Talk to me in 63 years about troops still in Iraq.

 

[BEHR655]

Gaglia, Iraq's as pretty as a Sunday school picnic, isn't? Maybe we should move there.

Maybe someday you would want to.............. if we stay the course.

Steve

 

[gagliarchives]

Maybe someday you would want to.............. if we stay the course.

Steve

Someone sees it as I do, and not like the fast food generation does

 

[BEHR655]

I'm beginning to see that facts carry virtually no importance in the debates but I thought I'd add a few more thoughts on the war.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following...

FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy...started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has ....liberated two countries; crushed the Taliban; crippled al-Qaida; eliminated Libyas nuclear program, and captured Saddam Hussein who slaughtered 800,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take the Iraqi army than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick.

WW2 was 63 years ago and we still have troops in Europe and Japan. Talk to me in 63 years about troops still in Iraq.

I never met you King but I like you.

Steve

 

[gagliarchives]

King said it best.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Hi Steve,

You said:

Maybe someday you would want to.............. if we stay the course.

Correcting failed policy is not tantamount to leaving Iraq in chaos. And it seems to me that this idea of creating a democratic state in Iraq is complete folly, as any democracy would be very short-lived in that region. Sad, I admit, but has every appearance to me as being true. If you can change my mind about this, I would take it as good news.

 

[BEHR655]

Hi Steve,

You said:

Correcting failed policy is not tantamount to leaving Iraq in chaos. And it seems to me that this idea of creating a democratic state in Iraq is complete folly, as any democracy would be very short-lived in that region. Sad, I admit, but has every appearance to me as being true. If you can change my mind about this, I would take it as good news.

I'm not here to change anyone's mind. You need to do that on your own. I'm just stating my opinions.

Steve