How do we stop the damage?

Discussion in 'Land Use Issues' started by Jason Howell, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. Piney4life

    Piney4life Explorer

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    I was thinking about that as well but the thought of the ffs needing to refill trucks during a fire that may slow them down or they would have to use alot if hose to get it
     
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  2. Teegate

    Teegate Administrator
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    Maybe they were but I have never supported it. I don't want a map telling me where I can and can't go.
     
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  3. bobpbx

    bobpbx Piney
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    Oh, I see, this is just your personal position then. My error. For a moment there, I thought it was the new position of some of the stakeholders.
     
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  4. smoke_jumper

    smoke_jumper Explorer

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    Of course before anything would get approved the FFS would have to weigh in. But generally speaking setting up a draft point is usually something that happens in the later stages of fighting a fire when time is less critical. In the initial attack refilling from a tanker is more the norm. Also I think the stone bridge would make a better fill site. Either way a wooden gate poses little to slow down a Stihl if it's needed.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  5. enormiss

    enormiss Explorer

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    The old "MAP" wasnt going to stop-the-damage, and a new map wont either. Thought that was the point of the uproar from the beginning? With a LOT of time, and a LOT of money a map could probably be created to appease everyone who cares but its not going to change the actions of people who dont care. Enforcement, education and awareness help the most IMO.
     
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  6. enormiss

    enormiss Explorer

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    Maybe im naive, but I think something like this
    http://galerija.celotajs.lv/lv/f/Events/2010/00528_SNPstendi
    With the wonderful info and pictures in this article
    https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...tory-behind-the-alloway-memorial-stone.11569/
    probably would have atleast helped save the foundations

    I havent been to the stone in awhile, but the 1st time there I was suprised at the lack of vandalism. (granted it is a durable chunk of stone) but I think the understanding of what it is and why its there gives people something to think about before doing something stupid
     
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  7. speveter911

    speveter911 New Member

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    A possible solution to this problem would be to give these people a place to ride that moves them away from this area. Charge a fee or membership and it basically pays for itself.
     
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  8. 1Jerseydevil

    1Jerseydevil Explorer

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    There have been ORV parks, the most successful was the Chatsworth park. Money from that ORV park was set aside to buy land for another ORV park near Williamstown. An old sand pit was purchased, public outcry doomed it and now it lays dormant. The State with public money bought an inadequate small pit in Cape May in the marshes. The State wants to lease it out and have a private entity run it. However the State put so many restrictions in place it would be a loosing proposition to anyone trying to run a business. As a result of this and other factors that land lays dormant. There has been multiple effort to get a couple ORV parks up and running but politics and enviro anti's have squashed every effort.

    Even when the successful Chatsworth park was up and running, it did attract a lot of off road vehicles, there was and always will be those that don't want to be in a confined park and have to pay. There will always be those trashing the woods no matter what, but the ORV park did reduce the damage to a degree. There's quite a bit more to this, but I'm not the one to speak out.
     
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  9. 46er

    46er Piney

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    There is a Field of Dreams in Millville, which has been very successful. Bikes & quads. Track and trails. In private hands it can be done.

    http://njmpfod.com/
     
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  10. PineBarrens Advocate

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    Converting Tri-Boro sand quarry (Gibbsboro) into an ORV and 4x4 vehicle paradise one day would be ideal.....its enormous and has great potential. Its dug so deep into the ground that it creates its own sound barrier. Limited to no neighbors around the pit (county owned open space surrounds much of it). Entrance and check in area are already established. Ample parking. Just dreaming but I would love to see that happen. Dirt bikes and quads use it now but they do so illegally. upload_2017-5-10_12-19-4.png
     
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  11. 1Jerseydevil

    1Jerseydevil Explorer

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    This is a totally different situation from the 3 ORV parks the State agreed to have up and running in order for licensing and other restrictions to be placed on ORV's used in the woods. FOD is already a racetrack with noise, dust and other factors so adding an MX track was minor. It is successful as it shows the need for such tracks. The idea was to have 3, North, central and southern part of the State. There are many played out gravel pits the owners would love to unload but again politics, NIMBY's and enviro's have killed all attempts. Private enterprises don't feel the political and enviro battle is worth it. There are easier ways to make $$.
     
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  12. smoke_jumper

    smoke_jumper Explorer

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    Just a thought. What if and enduro type of event with the landowner getting the lions share of the profits. Especially over a weekend when most operations are shut down. If enough money could be made I'm sure they might consider it.
     
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  13. PineBarrens Advocate

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    I'm all for it but getting the liability insurance might be tough.
     
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  14. smoke_jumper

    smoke_jumper Explorer

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    I've noticed raceways have been holding more and more "jeep" and "mudding" events all over. If there's enough money to be made I'm sure people will find a way.
     
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  15. Piney4life

    Piney4life Explorer

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    Chatsworth is a better location imo. Central location in nj and a former orv park close to major hyways.the state bought winslow sand quarry for orv park with green acres funds bit the environmental groups put a stop to that after the money was spent. so now we own a million dollar hole in the ground.
     
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  16. Ben Ruset

    Ben Ruset Administrator
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    The problem is that the leaders of some of the major environmental groups are militantly anti-ORV, to the point that they don't see that not opposing the creation of a few well thought out parks would go a long way towards solving the problem. So instead of being pragmatic and actually doing something that might alleviate the damage they just fight and fight and fight to prevent these places from opening. In the end nothing gets done and the problem gets kicked down the road.
     
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  17. 1Jerseydevil

    1Jerseydevil Explorer

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    This already is happening and has been for over 10 years. Sahara Sands in Eagleswood opens their pit to 2 enduro clubs to put on harescrambles. There was one this past weekend there. The owner wants good relations with the town and demands that all gate fees go to the firehouse and possibly first aid. Another place is an old farm in Cumberland that rents out the property for harescrambles. The clubs and a private enterprise must provide liability insurance for the weekend. Farms and most pit owners can't be bothered. The few thousand $$ for the weekend, they can't be bothered or are apprehensive. Atco dragway was open to the idea using their adjacent land, but clubs that scouted the property deemed it unusable for various reasons including parking. Old sand pits are the best since the land is already "scorched earth". A few farms are semi-willing during the off growing season [winter] at which time most events have ended and take the winter off due to weather.
    It's next to impossible to find land in this State, many clubs have tried and still looking.

    What we're talking here is a weekend event once or twice a year, not year round like an ORV park. That pit pictured in Gibbstown looks good but I bet for sure the near-by community would come out in force along with enviro's and shoot it down. I guess there's no law in NJ requiring owners of closed pits to refurbish the land to a "natural" grade and vegetation. Instead a scar and deep lake 40 to 70' deep is left to fend for itself. Rant over.
     
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  18. PineBarrens Advocate

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    In a densely populated state like ours with limited natural features to block sound the NIMBY pushback can be quite severe as understandably adding the sound of dozens or even hundreds of off road vehicles to a rural or suburban location for many folks would be a net negative. My hope is that dual sport nearly silent bikes like these become more readily available as technology increases. No fumes, little to no noise, no leaking fluids and/or petrochemicals would reduce the NIMBY pushback. After that its insurance and reducing wildlife exposure. Anyhow, one can dream. http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/dsr.php
     
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  19. 1Jerseydevil

    1Jerseydevil Explorer

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    Unfortunately this is a big hurdle. A friend lives in Chatsworth West of the Hedger House. I was visiting when the Chatsworth park was open. I heard some 4 stroke bikes or quads that I though were in the woods behind his house. Asking if there were good trails he said I'm hearing the ORV park. There is probably 2 miles or more through the woods from the park to his backyard. I couldn't believe just how far the sound travels even through the woods. 4 strokes with the low frequency exhaust notes does travel much farther than the higher pitch 2 strokes. I'm sure we've all heard bikes or quads when in the woods. You'll hear a 4T first then as they get closer if a 2T is with them you'll then faintly hear that. There are quiet exhaust but the old adage of the more noise the faster, applies to cars and trucks also. How about those open header Harley road bikes? Can you hear me now? LOL

    As for the electric bikes. Yes I would even like them. Their OK for park use but for general transportation or for enduro use they still don't have an acceptable range before the battery needs replacing or charging. Technology is advancing and someday I'm sure we'll see them in general use.

    Here's a paradox. There are always complaints that bikes make too much noise in the woods. A friend use to ride mountain bikes on enduro trails and other narrow paths or roads. He constantly said he got complaints from other trail users, hikers, horse people that he is to "quiet" and can't hear him coming until they meet scaring the crap out of them. Go figure. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
     
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