ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton

Piney4life

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To obtain the motorized rtp funds they needed to show a map to the fed so 1/2 million dollars that by the way was misappropriated ment for matinance of hi clearance vehicals, atv,dirt bike roads and trails and very specific on what funds can and cannot be used for. closing roads not allowed, making a road passable for a sedan no,paying for signs that close a road no.rtp funds are based off atv dirt bike and hi clearance vehicals fuel consumption estimates in nj.
 

ecampbell

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We have an established map now. The 1997 topo map. If it's on the map and not posted you are good. A map is only as good as the person using it. Without street signs posted at every intersection it just adds to the confusion. The "I thought I was on this road..." could be said and there would be no way to know if the person was telling the truth. Any closure needs to be posted to eliminate any confusion. People continue to drive down clearly posted roads, there's no map that would stop them. Enforcement is the only thing that has a chance.
I disagree with you on Dave's road, I think it should be repaired as well as Rockwood Road. Cherry Hill road on the other hand should be closed.
Where can I find the 1997 topo map?
 

Boyd

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smoke_jumper

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Realistically speaking there will never be enough money in the budget to repair those roads. Even if there was money for maintenance, it would go to fixing main roads that lead somewhere of interest. Like the one bigger hole on quaker bridge. Both those roads are auxiliary and you can still access where they lead from the north or the south.
I agree realistically not all roads can be fixed but Rockwood is not an auxiliary road it's a primary one. The current condition of it and the bridge being out at the Pleasnt Mills poses a life safety hazard in the event of a forest fire. With only one way in and out of that area being West Mill Road the FFS cannot safely commit any resources if a fire does break out. That puts anyone kayaking or hiking on the Mullica in harms way. Historically speaking fires burn in relatively the same patterns and that area burnt in 1997.
 
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smoke_jumper

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It's refreshing to have a civil conversation on this topic. No matter what side you were on a year ago most of us aren't that far apart. While I opposed the MAP, I am in favor of a map as long as it doesn't include additional closures. With the exception of areas like Jemima Mount and 1/4 Mile that should be permanently closed. Any closures should be handled in an individual basis. Currently we are moving in the right direction but there is a long way to go.
 
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Piney4life

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It's refreshing to have a civil conversation on this topic. No matter what side you were on a year ago most of us aren't that far apart. While I opposed the MAP, I am in favor of a map as long as it doesn't include additional closures. With the exception of areas like Jemima Mount and 1/4 Mile that should be permanently closed, any closures should be handled in an individual basis. Currently we are moving in the right direction but there is a long way to go.
I agree with the direction it is going now as well and they should absolutely use the rtp funds every year that is offered to the state but used correctly 1.2 million is nothing to throw away. alot of non motorized funds come from it as well. but you can't exclude one form of recreation but still want the funds they create for all others.
 

ecampbell

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Thanks Ben, everyone states it like it is obvious but you are the first to point directly to it. It is interesting that many drivable roads are omitted, Devious - Mount being just one. This topo is not accurate.
 
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Ben Ruset

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Thanks Ben, everyone states it like it is obvious but you are the first to point directly to it. It is interesting that many drivable roads are omitted, Devious - Mount being just one. This topo is not accurate.
Are you saying the one on NJPB Maps that I just posted isn't accurate?
 

Boyd

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See my image above, there are actually 11 separate 24k maps (quads) that cover Wharton. Each map has a creation date and optionally a revision date and inspection date. Then there's also a date when it was printed, I think the same maps were re-printed on different dates. You need to look at the title on the map collar to find these dates.

I would be very interested to know more about "the 1997 map"… can you post what dates are actually shown on each quad? Here are all the individual quads (see my index above) from the LibreMap Project, they are just about the cleanest versions I have seen of the USGS 24k topos. Are you saying that these aren't the best maps?

1967 Clementon, photo revised 1981: http://ia600304.us.archive.org/24/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_g8/o39074g8.tif

1967 Medford Lakes, photo revised 1981: http://ia601407.us.archive.org/19/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_g7/o39074g7.tif

1957 Indian Mills, photo inspected 1977: http://ia600303.us.archive.org/12/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_g6/o39074g6.tif

1957 Chatsworth: http://ia600300.us.archive.org/7/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_g5/o39074g5.tif

1966 Hammonton, photo revised 1981: http://ia902700.us.archive.org/5/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_f7/o39074f7.tif

1953 Atsion, photo inspected 1977: http://ia600308.us.archive.org/9/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_f6/o39074f6.tif

1956 Jenkins, photo inspected 1977: http://ia601409.us.archive.org/2/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_f5/o39074f5.tif

1955 Oswego Lake, photo inspected 1989: http://www.archive.org/download/usgs_drg_nj_39074_f4/o39074f4.tif

1956 Egg Harbor City, photo revised 1972, photo inspected 1977: http://ia902605.us.archive.org/26/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_e6/o39074e6.tif

1956 Green Bank, photo revised 1972, photo inspected 1977: http://ia601402.us.archive.org/33/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_e5/o39074e5.tif

1951 New Gretna, photo revised 1972, photo inspected 1977: http://ia601406.us.archive.org/29/items/usgs_drg_nj_39074_e4/o39074e4.tif

Full list of New Jersey quads: http://libremap.org/data/state/new_jersey/drg/
 

ecampbell

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Absolutely! There is a very drivable road over Devious going to Mount past Jemima Mount.

ben.jpg

The intersection of Mannis Pond Road and Push Line Road, circled in blue, is straight. The road in red does not exist.

Ben1.jpg



There seems to be two very different sections to this page, the lower one I have issues with. A 1997 map should be accurate as of 1997, not a copy and paste of older ones.
Ben2.jpg
 

Boyd

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There seems to be two very different sections to this page, the lower one I have issues with. A 1997 map should be accurate as of 1997, not a copy and paste of older ones.
That just isn't how the USGS topo maps work. AFAIK, there isn't any such thing as a "1997 map". Each individual quad was created on different dates - long ago. Over the years, they did some revisions, which are shown in purple ink. They did not re-draw the whole map. A seamless map, such as the NJPB maps, is a composite of these different quads.

So, basically, all that is available from the USGS is a "cut and paste of older ones". And the USGS has completely abandoned all these maps now and considers them "historical topographic maps". The current version is the "US Topo" and I really don't care for those.

In making my Garmin "Core Pines" map, I have attempted to take the roads from the USGS topos and also add everything I could see on the 2007 aerials and LIDAR imagery. I'm sure there are plenty of errors, but believe it's the most comprehensive map you will find: core_pines.zip
 
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ecampbell

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"So, basically, all that is available from the USGS is a "cut and paste of older ones".

I have a problem with those expounding the hodgepodge 1997 topo as the definitive explanation as to where we can go.
 
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Boyd

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Not sure if I have problem with it, because I don't know what "1997 topo" means. @smoke_jumper said "We have an established map now. The 1997 topo map". Maybe he can explain it. :)

I have a vague memory that this was discussed earlier, and perhaps "1997 topo" is something that was referenced in the original brochure on the MAP.
 

Boyd

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FWIW, I use this USGS map viewer site
Thanks for posting that, it is new. I noticed they mentioned it on the Historic Topo page I linked to above, but didn't try it.

So, I stand corrected. :oops: There actually does seem to be a 1997 version, for example, this is Jenkins: http://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/NJ/NJ_Jenkins_254497_1997_24000.jpg

Here's Atsion: http://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/NJ/NJ_Atsion_254092_1997_24000.jpg

You can find the rest….

Looks like I have a new project. :) Once again, I have learned something new from this site!

As to whether this really is the "holy grail" of Wharton topo maps though… I have no idea.