ORV Management In Sensitive Areas Of Wharton

tsqurd

Explorer
Jul 29, 2015
158
95
South Jersey
I think all of us would like to work with the PPA and other orgs like the NJCF to find a long term solution to the problem that everyone can live with. I think there's some good ideas coming out of the stakeholder meetings. Time will tell.

I think the bigger question is: will the powers that be with in the PPA be willing to work with us and be willing to except all respectful forest users, even if not everyone fits into their preservation model? From the beginning, just about everyone on "our side" has seemed focused on identifying the true threats to the forest and looking for solutions to them. Meanwhile, the groups, more like the singular group - PPA, that support the closures have tried to vilify us and present a very misleading case for the MAP.
 

Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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I forgot to mention I did question personally the threatened and endangered man about rattlesnakes being killed on the dirt roads around Carranza and Carranza road itself. I had doubts that they were finding any on the dirt roads. And sure enough he said what I have always believed that the dead snakes found were on Carranza Road. So closing the dirt roads at least for death rates is a waste of time. Now it may not be for other factors but at least we know that answer.
 

Maggie

Scout
Sep 16, 2015
43
23
Three Bridges, NJ
The perfect outcome of this whole thing would be what? All the roads that currently exist remain open to law-abiding citizens who treat the land, plants, their fellow humans and non-human inhabitants with respect. Using any vehicle off these many, many miles of established roads has to be off-limits, as is recklessly using them in a manner that renders them impassable to other vehicles. Littering, dumping, fires, and other human impacts of other types are by definition disrespectful and not permitted. You can be here, just please don't leave a mess. In a perfect world, people would understand this as a common good and no enforcement would be necessary. In reality, anything we deem worth protecting is going to need people to protect it, which is going to take money. Teegate said in an earlier post "It was also revealed that it is in the works to acquire more money for Wharton to do maintenance and other things that are needed. I guess they finally realize that running a state park on $40,000 dollars a years does not cut it".

Hear, hear. Wharton is worth it.
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,569
610
I forgot to mention I did question personally the threatened and endangered man about rattlesnakes being killed on the dirt roads around Carranza and Carranza road itself. I had doubts that they were finding any on the dirt roads. And sure enough he said what I have always believed that the dead snakes found were on Carranza Road. So closing the dirt roads at least for death rates is a waste of time. Now it may not be for other factors but at least we know that answer.

The only dead TR I found was on Carranza Road right in front of the memorial. The funny thing was after walking the dogs at Sandy Ridge it was gone. Believe me it was quite squashed.
 

Maggie

Scout
Sep 16, 2015
43
23
Three Bridges, NJ
The only dead TR I found was on Carranza Road right in front of the memorial. The funny thing was after walking the dogs at Sandy Ridge it was gone. Believe me it was quite squashed.

So it is probably a good thing for these snakes to prevent other roads from becoming as heavily used as Carranza Road.
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,131
576
Atco, NJ
I would think that the signs on Sandy Causeway will stay up like the ones on Quaker Bridge since they too were posted long before the MAP and there is no reason to be driving in those pools anyway.
 
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Ben Ruset

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Oct 12, 2004
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Eatontown, NJ
www.benruset.com
The perfect outcome of this whole thing would be what? All the roads that currently exist remain open to law-abiding citizens who treat the land, plants, their fellow humans and non-human inhabitants with respect. Using any vehicle off these many, many miles of established roads has to be off-limits, as is recklessly using them in a manner that renders them impassable to other vehicles. Littering, dumping, fires, and other human impacts of other types are by definition disrespectful and not permitted. You can be here, just please don't leave a mess. In a perfect world, people would understand this as a common good and no enforcement would be necessary. In reality, anything we deem worth protecting is going to need people to protect it, which is going to take money. Teegate said in an earlier post "It was also revealed that it is in the works to acquire more money for Wharton to do maintenance and other things that are needed. I guess they finally realize that running a state park on $40,000 dollars a years does not cut it".

Hear, hear. Wharton is worth it.

The perfect outcome is where officials from all of the groups and the DEP sit down and come up with criteria for what closes a road. Then only the roads that fit that criteria are closed. Roads would be closed using something more substantial than those flimsy brown plastic signs. I'd suggest heavy wooden or metal gates set in concrete. That way the roads could be opened by the FFS or other permitted parties if need be.

Driving off a trail would be illegal. Obviously nobody should be driving into bogs or marshes or anywhere there is not an established road or trail. In areas where the road is bad but a go-around exists people should be permitted to use that until the road is repaired. No new go-arounds should be made.

At the same time, funding for the State Park Police needs to be increased. They need to be given vehicles capable of operating back in the woods. I've seen park rangers driving around with Jeeps - there's no reason why the SPP shouldn't have the same, or more capable, vehicles. Fines for leaving a trail, damaging habitat, etc. needs to be heavy to act as a deterrent. Local municipalities would need to be on board with enforcing those tickets in court.

A map (lower case) showing roads that are open to traffic needs to be created so that people know where they can and can not drive. The map would need to be of sufficient resolution to show all of the smaller roads and trails that are open.

And yes, it's ridiculous to think that Wharton can be funded on just $40k. But Rob's salary alone is more than double that, so I'm suspicious of that $40k number.

So it is probably a good thing for these snakes to prevent other roads from becoming as heavily used as Carranza Road.

I don't see that happening. Carranza Road, from Tabernacle to Friendship is a real, maintained road. It just happens to be dirt for a portion. It gets that kind of traffic because pretty much any vehicle can get down it and it's graded and maintained regularly.
 
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46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,838
2,125
Coastal NJ
In reality, anything we deem worth protecting is going to need people to protect it, which is going to take money. Teegate said in an earlier post "It was also revealed that it is in the works to acquire more money for Wharton to do maintenance and other things that are needed. I guess they finally realize that running a state park on $40,000 dollars a years does not cut it".

Hear, hear. Wharton is worth it.

Just a minor factoid; Wharton is a state forest. Regarding funding, a recent ballot question was passed by taxpayers to provide additional funding, but the question had a trap door most did not see and most of that funding, although intended for Parks & Forests, went to other state things. The funding issues are state wide, and funding is the responsibility of our elected officials. Many fee's collected at parks and forests go right into the general fund, to be used for things other than the parks, forests and historic sites. Similar issues were occurring at our national parks until legislation was passed that gave some percentage back to the park from which it was collected and some fee's were increased. Perhaps similar legislation is needed here, and it is long overdue that our elected officials are taken to task to get it done.
 

92 Blazer Jeff

Explorer
Aug 24, 2015
259
100
GLASSBORO,NJ
The park police have 4 wheel drive Tahoe's to patrol the woods. I was out at the fork's on the batsto river and a police officer stop to say hi.
When he left he got it stuck in the sand, pop it in 4 wheel an pulled right out.
 
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Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
A map (lower case) showing roads that are open to traffic needs to be created so that people know where they can and can not drive. The map would need to be of sufficient resolution to show all of the smaller roads and trails that are open.

I have posted a very high resolution version of my own proprietary topo map covering Wharton in the hope that it might be useful. Rather than take this thread off-topic, here's a link to another thread with more information: https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...pines-beta-available.5103/page-13#post-131525
 
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Maggie

Scout
Sep 16, 2015
43
23
Three Bridges, NJ
Just a minor factoid; Wharton is a state forest. Regarding funding, a recent ballot question was passed by taxpayers to provide additional funding, but the question had a trap door most did not see and most of that funding, although intended for Parks & Forests, went to other state things. The funding issues are state wide, and funding is the responsibility of our elected officials. Many fee's collected at parks and forests go right into the general fund, to be used for things other than the parks, forests and historic sites. Similar issues were occurring at our national parks until legislation was passed that gave some percentage back to the park from which it was collected and some fee's were increased. Perhaps similar legislation is needed here, and it is long overdue that our elected officials are taken to task to get it done.

Can't disagree with that.
 

Boyd

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Jul 31, 2004
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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
For those of you who don't follow the electronics forum, I have created the following three maps to help you evaluate the impact of road closures in Wharton:

historic.png

The oldest available USGS Historical 24k topo maps (from the period 1951-1956). See what Wharton looked like sixty years ago. This .kmz file can be used in Google Earth. Download link: historic_topo.zip


wharton30.png

My own all-new extreme topo of Wharton and surrounding areas using LIDAR imagery for contours and shaded terrain. Also a .kmz file for use in Google Earth. Download link: boydmap_wharton_30.zip


garmin.png

My own highly detailed topo map of the Core Pine Barrens made from the newest available data. This Garmin compatible map can be used in the free Basecamp program on your computer and on your Garmin GPS in the field. Download link: core_pines.zip

I hope you find these useful. For additional information and discussion, see this thread: https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/th...pines-beta-available.5103/page-13#post-131537

(edited 10/28/15 with link to new LIDAR topo)
 
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Don Catts

Explorer
Aug 5, 2012
461
258
81
Indian Mills
For those of you who don't follow the electronics forum, I have created the following three maps to help you evaluate the impact of road closures in Wharton:

View attachment 6525
The oldest available USGS Historical 24k topo maps (from the period 1951-1956). See what Wharton looked like sixty years ago. This .kmz file can be used in Google Earth. Download link: historic_topo.zip


View attachment 6526
My own high resolution topo map of Wharton State Forest showing park boundaries, roads from multiple sources and many other details. Also a .kmz file for use in Google Earth. Download link: wharton_kmz_v09.zip


View attachment 6524
My own highly detailed topo map of the Core Pine Barrens made from the newest available data. This Garmin compatible map can be used in the free Basecamp program on your computer and on your Garmin GPS in the field. Download link: core_pines.zip

I hope you find these useful. For additional information and discussion, see this thread: https://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/boyds-map-of-the-pines-beta-available.5103/page-13#post-131537

I'm not too interested in road closers, but they do have a lot of good info I am interested in having on hand.
It's so nice to be able to bring up these maps with a couple of keys strokes, Don
 
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Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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The time is running out to sign up for the November 5 meeting in Hammonton. If you have not signed up and want to attend do so by tomorrow.
 
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Teegate

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They will not confirm unless you write back and ask. That is what I did and they responded.
 

TheePackRat

New Member
Mar 27, 2014
27
16
Atco
I registered by email a couple weeks ago, called today to double check and my name was not on the friendly girl's spreadsheet so she added it. Print your sent email and bring it with you just in case. Many others reported the same thing when they called to confirm.
 

smoke_jumper

Piney
Mar 5, 2012
1,131
576
Atco, NJ
I registered by email a couple weeks ago, called today to double check and my name was not on the friendly girl's spreadsheet so she added it. Print your sent email and bring it with you just in case. Many others reported the same thing when they called to confirm.
The same thing happened to me. I confirmed through the phone and she was very helpful.
 

Teegate

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Sep 17, 2002
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This was poorly planned from the very beginning. There should have been an automated response to every email sent to them. ThreePackRat's suggestion is a very good one. Print out whatever you have and take it with you. Or call tomorrow and have them confirm that you are registered. Remember, you basically are relying on the very same people who were planning and may still be trying to close the roads.
 

Teegate

Administrator
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Sep 17, 2002
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Update: I would highly suggest that if you have registered to go to the November 5 meeting at Hammonton that you call today and make sure your name is on the list if you have not already done so.
 
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