Red Oak Grove (and Union Clay Graves)

[Teegate]

How long would it take to make it to Sterling State Park NY from there?

https://boydsmaps.com/tz/#z=18&n=4560438&e=560588&s=25

Guy

 

[njvike]

How long would it take to make it to Sterling State Park NY from there?

Guy

Guy, Mapquest says 1hour and 45 minutes. I believe that's a good assumption.

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...2l=RtH8qL%2b6YQ8%3d&lr=2&x=57&y=6

 

[Teegate]

Thank you. That pretty much eliminates me from doing that.

Guy

 

[Ben Ruset]

I did a lookup on Jersey Wagon Jaunts but haven't found any for sale. I wonder if anyone in the group has it as I would like to know what areas were written about.

I have both volumes of Jersey Wagon Jaunts. It deals with history all over the state, not just the Pine Barrens. For the price that you'd pay used, it's probably not worth it.

The author, Alfred Heston, has another two volume set - "South Jersey: A History" which might be a better bet for Pine Barrens research.

 

[njvike]

I did find a set for the asking price of $75.00. It's now between that and the books Marilyn is selling "The Jersey Central" Not sure which to purchase.

On another note: When Barry took me to see Eagle, we noticed that there looked like some developing? going on right near the trun for Eagle.

To date, Barry hasn't received a response to his question asking the Pinelands commission what is taking place.

I also was reading about Speedwell (can't seem to put those books down) and came across the story and it makes reference of a person named "Tom" that was buried right around there. I hope this grave isn't where they were working.

Has anyone seen this grave? You can send me a PM or e-mail me with the infromation. I'm not looking for the exact location.

Many thanks

 

[bach2yoga]

I did find a set for the asking price of $75.00. It's now between that and the books Marilyn is selling "The Jersey Central" Not sure which to purchase.

On another note: When Barry took me to see Eagle, we noticed that there looked like some developing? going on right near the trun for Eagle.

To date, Barry hasn't received a response to his question asking the Pinelands commission what is taking place.

I also was reading about Speedwell (can't seem to put those books down) and came across the story and it makes reference of a person named "Tom" that was buried right around there. I hope this grave isn't where they were working.

Has anyone seen this grave? You can send me a PM or e-mail me with the infromation. I'm not looking for the exact location.

Many thanks

I had asked this a while back, but noone seemed to know. If I remember correctly, Guy thought the road had been changed since then.
Renee

 

[njvike]

[/quote]

I had asked this a while back, but noone seemed to know. If I remember correctly, Guy thought the road had been changed since then.
Renee[/quote]

Renee,

It has changed a lot since I was there last which was only a year ago, I believe. There's a big clearing on both sides of the road.

Barry knows more about this than I do. I believe he mentioned something about planting some trees and plants that aren't native to the area.

Barry, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Teegate]

I do not have the book with me, but the directions to Tom's grave state that it is on the road from Chatsworth through Speedwell which is 563. It also states that the grave was right at an intersection along this road before Speedwell, and Beck believes the road at that intersection would lead to Eagle. So that to me makes it clear that is was between Chatsworth and Speedwell in this approximate vicinity give or take a large area.

https://boydsmaps.com/tz/#z=18&...6&s=50&size=l&u=0&layer=DRG25

I am certain that 563 was a much thinner road back then without the large shoulder and the large area of cut grass along it's edges, so if the grave at the time was at the intersection of 563 and another road, it is long gone by the modern changes they have made to 563. I believe searching for this site is a lost cause. Only my opinion and it would be great if I was wrong.

Guy

 

[BarryC]

Ken,
I sent you an email, to your Earthlink address. I don't know if you got it or not. The clearings we saw were for some sort of forestry project with Rutgers or something, but no details were ever given. Nothing has happened with those 2 sites since we first saw them cleared.
The sites where they will plant non-native trees are much larger sites. We never saw those that day. That's the Lee Brothers' tree plantation. And you are right- the Pinelands Commission never got back to me about what that was. I found out by asking the PPA, Pinelands Preservation Alliance. They knew right away.
If no more clearing is done out there, that will be nice.
Barry

Renee,

It has changed a lot since I was there last which was only a year ago, I believe. There's a big clearing on both sides of the road.

Barry knows more about this than I do. I believe he mentioned something about planting some trees and plants that aren't native to the area.

Barry, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[BarryC]

Ken,
I sent you an email a couple days ago, to your Earthlink address. I don't know if you ever saw it. Maybe it didn't go through.
The 2 clearings we saw are part of some kind of forestry project by Rutgers or something. That's what the Pinelands Commission told me. But no details were given. And they never got back to me about the clearings on the dirt road north of Renault Winery, other than to say that the clearing was begun before they got their permits.
The areas where they will be planting non-native trees- that's an area you and I didn't see that day. That's the Lee Brothers' tree plantation, but the Pinelands Commission never got back to me about what that was. It was the PPA that told me. I asked them and they knew right away.
Barry

Renee,

It has changed a lot since I was there last which was only a year ago, I believe. There's a big clearing on both sides of the road.

Barry knows more about this than I do. I believe he mentioned something about planting some trees and plants that aren't native to the area.

Barry, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[manumuskin]

could it be that the road that heads north from the red cross on the map and parallels 563 to the west by about 50 yards is the old 563? It"s common to find the old route paralleling the new route in some places.Maybe the grave is along this old route?
Al

 

[Teegate]

could it be that the road that heads north from the red cross on the map and parallels 563 to the west by about 50 yards is the old 563? It"s common to find the old route paralleling the new route in some places.Maybe the grave is along this old route?
Al

The present day 563 is the same road as it was in this 1885 map. Notice Chatsworth was not Chatsworth, it was Shamong. Also notice the absence of Carranza Road because he had not crashed yet, and that was when the road was hacked there to find him on Sandy Ridge. It is certain the road was slightly diverted to built it more straight, but where to look for the grave is uncertain.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/1885.jpg

Guy

 

[njvike]

I sent you an email a couple days ago, to your Earthlink address. I don't know if you ever saw it. Maybe it didn't go through.


Barry,

I have received over 500 messages within the last two days. Apprently my hosting company,not erathlink, isn't pro-active when it comes to filtering out viruses and/or junk mail.

I had to add some *rules* to my e-mail client (Outlook Express) and now I can get to the messages a lot quicker. What even made this worse is that Norton checks each message out and then informs you that the message is infected and provided you with several options on how to process the message. So, with 500 messages I had to close down the mail feature in Norton and let them all come through.

I gave my hosting company my two cents but we will see how long it takes for the to react

Anyway, you can send messages to that account.

Thanks for the information, too.

Ken

 

[KenDawg]

Guy and Ben,

The cache I placed at Union Clay Works is not at the ruins but behind it in the woods. There is a firebreak trail that leads to another firebreak trail and the cache is just off the trail. If you would like the cache archived I will do so. I am sorry, I did not wish to cause a problem. I am totally against putting a cache at the graves. I understand that some, not all, geocachers only care about is finding the cache. I get mad when I search for a cache and all the plants and trees are knocked down. This is due to a total lack of respect of the natural environment and it should be addressed through Geocaching.com .

Thank you,
KenDawg

 

[Teegate]

Ken,

You have every right to place that there and we have no right to say anything to you about it. Don't apologize. I have no problem with that anyway because there really is nothing at Union Clay Works to destroy that already hasn't been over the last 100 years. They find the cache, look around a little and leave. Noting wrong with that.

I hope I did not give you the feeling that I don't like geocaching completely. It is a great hobby, I just hate to see them near a place that has some historical importance or that is fragile. Union Clay Works does not really fit that criteria in my opinion.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

After finishing kayaking I had a few minutes and rushed over to Red Oak Grove and visited the cellar holes for less than 5 minutes. The fall might be a better time to check them out.


Guy

 

[manumuskin]

clay works again

Ok people
I am personally headed out to the clay works tomorrow on my never ending search for these old graves.I"ve have several hints that point to the same place and my nose is to the ground.couldn"t try last weekend but I"m back this one.The dark green vitara is mine and I"m the fat boy that just lost his big beard.short dark hair and glasses in chigger sprayed mossy oak camo.had enough chiggers this year.I"m layin for em this timeMight check out red oak grove and go check out the landing gear at bear swamp hill afterwards.
Al

 

[Teegate]

You certainly have that drive and I admire that. If you find the graves you would be the only person I know of other than the person I received the info from, to find it on their own. Good luck.

Now concerning the landing gear, you better have good eyesight because it is not easy to find. In fact, without knowing it's general location I would say it is almost impossible to find especially this time of year. So if you want a few hints I will post them. And if you want directions write me at TeeGate@comcast.net. I gave the directions to Ed before I met him, so you certainly can have them also. I just will not post them.

Guy

 

[Ben Ruset]

I don't think anybody is going to be able to vandalize the gear. You'd need a crane to move the thing out of the muck.

 

[Teegate]

I still would like to know why it is still there? You would think they would have taken all the wreckage.

Guy