Sasquatch in the Pines

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woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,274
244
Near Mt. Misery
Guy, Dogg57 is correct. It is Watering Place Pond. It is referred to as such in "The vegetation of the NJ pine-barrens" published in 1916. I pulled out my copy because I recalled it being in there. It has photos from 1913 of the pond.

Jeff
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,274
244
Near Mt. Misery
Adam,
Considering that bigfoot's existence in the pacific NW has been discounted by the entire scientific community (save for a very few). And the most contraversial evidence has been proven to be a hoax; why do you think there is some possibility of a bigfoot living in NJ of all places?

Is there some evidence? Even the slightest bit? I know there has been some disscussion and testimony but that doesn't amount to anything without some tangible basis for further investigation.

I can't come up with an explaination (off the top of my head) for the noises you heard, but why would it have anything to do with bigfoot? There must be a million other assumptions one could make for the origins of the noises before considering..."it might be bigfoot".

I'm not making fun, or attacking you (really). I just can't understand where this is all coming from. I haven't looked into it that closely, maybe I need to be enlightened.

Jeff
 

dogg57

Piney
Jan 22, 2007
2,912
373
Southern NJ
southjerseyphotos.com
Guy, Dogg57 is correct. It is Watering Place Pond. It is referred to as such in "The vegetation of the NJ pine-barrens" published in 1916. I pulled out my copy because I recalled it being in there. It has photos from 1913 of the pond.

Jeff
Off the subject of bigfoot sorry, but heres the online book
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZQY9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=Harshberger’s Watering Place Pond.&source=bl&ots=EY30rDspNO&sig=ektNCDJZhfrQxwiA7vOWc-E_eCw&hl=en&ei=JmXZTuqtNeHn0QHt4vGIDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
 

Teegate

Administrator
Site Administrator
Sep 17, 2002
23,575
5,498
Thanks! So we need to start calling it by the proper name then. This is how history gets changed :siren:

:D

Guy
 

Boyd

Administrator
Site Administrator
Jul 31, 2004
8,140
1,829
Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
Harshberger is one of my favorite books... this reminds me that it's time to read it again. Wouldn't it have been amazing to visit the Plains in 1912? :)

wateringplace.jpg
 

Old Crazy

Explorer
Oct 13, 2007
481
93
Stinking Creek, NJ
Adam, that noise you heard was me. I was listening to the Eagles-Patriots game on the radio as I was hiking and I kept banging my head against a tree. :D

Seriously though, I have hiked hundreds of miles after dark in the pine barrens, and several times after dark on the Batona Trail and the yellow trail near Batsto and have never encountered anything unusual. I'm just telling you straight up as one who has spent a lot of night time hours out in the pines hiking and camping, there are no ghosts, Jersey Devils or mythical creatures out there. Noises get magnified at night because there's usually less wind, nature is quieter, and your sense of hearing increses as your sense of sight is diminished in the dark. I have heard noises at night that I couldn't identify and I have walked up on birds nesting on the ground that have screeched up in the air and nearly scared me to death, but I have never encountered any creatures unknown to science. Now if you want to talk about whether I have ever seen evidence of bears or mountain lions out in the pine barrens...that's a different story.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,121
1,980
57
millville nj
www.youtube.com
hey Old Crazy,I just seen a bear a few days ago a mile from my house in laurel lake,just south of Millville.Have had a few sighting in the area for a few years now but I just saw my first one in south jeresy and it was right down the road.I think he's having a ball eating bait piles and tipping trash cans.Everyone around here are not bear savvy yet and their blaming it on dogs:) I saw a cougar back in 78 when I was canoeing the mullica at age 14.where did you see yours at?
I've done a lot of night hiking in the barrens myself and the only thing I've actually seen out there to fear are young doped up drunks driving around and acting insane. I have shook up a few people at night myself playing on jersey devil fear back when i was young and could actually out run people in the woods.Too old and fat to run now so i don't pick on people so much anymore:)
 

Adam Buchler

Scout
Nov 5, 2011
87
3
34
Adam,
Considering that bigfoot's existence in the pacific NW has been discounted by the entire scientific community (save for a very few). And the most contraversial evidence has been proven to be a hoax; why do you think there is some possibility of a bigfoot living in NJ of all places?

Is there some evidence? Even the slightest bit? I know there has been some disscussion and testimony but that doesn't amount to anything without some tangible basis for further investigation.

I can't come up with an explaination (off the top of my head) for the noises you heard, but why would it have anything to do with bigfoot? There must be a million other assumptions one could make for the origins of the noises before considering..."it might be bigfoot".

I'm not making fun, or attacking you (really). I just can't understand where this is all coming from. I haven't looked into it that closely, maybe I need to be enlightened.

Jeff
Jeff I'm assuming that your are refering to the patterson-gimlin film. With a little research you will find that any REAL scientific or forensic analysis of the film essentially concludes that the creature in the film is in fact real. If you look up the NASI report(which is only one of several legitimate forensic analysis of the film) you will find some interesting things there. Also, several of hollywoods top makeup/ape suit designers have been consulted for analysis of the film....every single one agrees that there is no way that can be a man in a suit(based on things like body dimensions i.e. the proportions of the arms and legs to the body and all of the muscle contraction/relaxation that can be seen as the creature walks) And when you consider that that film was made in 1967 by a guy who was by no means rich....the idea of man in a suit becomes more of a stretch. However, to play devils advocate, roger patterson was out to find a bigfoot as he heard that there had been sighting in the area....so it does seem rather convienent that he ran into one that day. But then again, some people play the lottery and win don't they? I attached the link to the remastered version of the film. The more you watch it.....the more you start to think to yourself that you might actually be looking a real sasquatch....or that it was the greatest friggin monkey suit ever created in the history of mankind lol.
FBI finger printer did a study of over 100 plaster casts of aledged bigfoot tracks that spanned a 40 yr period and were brought in from all different parts of north america. He said that he found dermal ridges(the little lines that make up a finger print) on the majority of the casts and that the dermal ridges all had the same pattern and characteristics as you would expect if you were finger printing a group of animals from the same species. In other words, if you showed him a finger print from a chimp he could tell you it was a chimp just based on the characteristics of the print...same with humans or other primates. He did rule out a few of the casts as fake but the vast majority, like i said, he determined were indeed from a real population of animals. He is apparently well regarded in the "finger printing" community from what I understand, and I know that his testimony has put several people in jail so I value his opinion.
Another guys who analyzes data for a living looked at all of these casts and measured their dimensions(length,width,etc) and ran it through some software to chart them. His results showed that the collective dimensions of this collection of casts fit a perfect bell curve which is what you would expect with any population of existing animals. For example you could measure feet from a group of humans and when you chart the dimensions of their feet it would fit a bell curve. So, if these casts(which i mentioned were from all over NA and from over a 40 yr span) were all just randomly faked by different individuals over the years, then you would not see any pattern to the dimensions of each cast...in other words, it would just be random data(i.e. it would not fit a bell curve)
So those are just a few things I can think of off the top of my head that address the issue of whether or not bigfoots are real. And as for the specifics of the things i mentioned you can look them up online using google and whatnot...i just wanted to give you a quick "introduction." Now I don't expect that I have convinced you of anything but I hope it at least shows you that you might not have really thought the whole bigfoot thing thru thoroughly enough. So I hope it at least encourages you to do a little research in you're spare time.....it won't take long before you realize how ridiculous it is to think that they DON'T exist. Not to mention, there are literally thousands and thousands of eye witness accounts documented which you can find all over the internet(and remember those are only the ones that have been reported, i imagine that there are probably 3 times as many sighting, but most people don't have the balls to tell anyone what they saw)....not a day goes by that someone doesn't report seeing one somewhere in NA. Now I know that's not "scientific evidence" but do you really think that literally every single one of those people are lying to no benefit of their own, or that they just misidentified a bear? Personally, if 500 random people tell me that that saw an 8ft tall hairy manlike animal walk past them in broad day light I think that at the very least it warrants an open mind and some investigation. And if for the sake of argument we say that BF is real, then why the hell couldn't the pines serve as stomping grounds for such an animal? I bet the number of BF sighting in the pines isn't too far from the number of ML or bob cat sightings. Manumuskin just told me that he has only seen a ML once in the pines....and hes been hanging out there for almost 40 yrs if im not mistaken. My uncle who is almost 70 has been hunting near batsto for 40-50 yrs and he has never seen a ML or bob cat, yet people accept that they exist in the pines don't they? The only difference is that unfortunately there is a stigma associated with "bigfoot" that prevents it from being taken seriously.....I'm not like some of these quacks who runs around chasing monsters and UFOs all day....I don't think bigfoot has any "magical powers" lol. It's just one of the many species on the evolutionary chain between chimps and humans, and it eats, shit, and sleeps just like any other animal. Well that's my schpeel, but I did not do nearly a good enough job explaining myself so you better hit the web and find out for yourself...this is a good place to start http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWGYTHK3E30
 

Adam Buchler

Scout
Nov 5, 2011
87
3
34
And woodjin btw...back in 1967 bigfoot was a considered a "legend" a "monster" a "beast" that roamed the mountains and every now and then terrorized people that "he" came across. So, if roger patterson set out to make a bigfoot suit to depict this "monster"/"beast" or whatever you wanna call it, why would go the extra length to put boobs on the suit? lol Doesn't exactly fit the "legend" that people at that time knew bigfoot to be.
 

Adam Buchler

Scout
Nov 5, 2011
87
3
34
Adam,
Considering that bigfoot's existence in the pacific NW has been discounted by the entire scientific community (save for a very few). And the most contraversial evidence has been proven to be a hoax; why do you think there is some possibility of a bigfoot living in NJ of all places?

Is there some evidence? Even the slightest bit? I know there has been some disscussion and testimony but that doesn't amount to anything without some tangible basis for further investigation.

I can't come up with an explaination (off the top of my head) for the noises you heard, but why would it have anything to do with bigfoot? There must be a million other assumptions one could make for the origins of the noises before considering..."it might be bigfoot".

I'm not making fun, or attacking you (really). I just can't understand where this is all coming from. I haven't looked into it that closely, maybe I need to be enlightened.

Jeff
this is one example of what I was talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUwdHex1Zs
 

woodjin

Piney
Nov 8, 2004
4,274
244
Near Mt. Misery
Adam,
I appreciate your detailed response. This is really a fruitless disscussion I suppose since I can't prove it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. Clearly you are very interested in this pursuit and as far as I can see, this interest doesn't adversly affect anyone else. Therefore my opinion on the matter really shouldn't affect you one way or the other.

I was referring to the Patterson film. I find the scientific evidence inconclusive and flawed fundamentally. Keep in mind that these shows are bias toward the existence of BF for good television, entertainment. I've seen a few shows (though not as many as you I am sure) and I am far from convienced. I thought the film was really cool when i was a kid, but I now when I see it, it really does look like a guy in a suit. The actor has even come forward. Why doesn't the big foot run if they are so reclusive? According to Philip Morris (the guy who claims to have sold him the suit), the costumes were used for side show acts were an attactive woman transforms into an ape...hence the boobs.

Bobcats are rare but are a real animal. they were re-introduced to the pines in (circa) 1978 with transmitters for tracking purposes. Mountain Lions are not recognized or accepted as a currently indigenous animal of the pines. Most sightings are speculated to be that of former pets. There is some consideration that they might exist in the wild here in the pines. ML's are of course, undeniably, real animals.

I think what I find most confusing is the sudden interest in bigfoot in NJ. As far as I know there is no historical or natural record or evidence to justify the consideration. It is like looking for the Jersey Devil in Washington state. Does it stem from the Big Red Eye monster in north Jersey?

BUT....like I mentioned before, it is a pointless disscussion. I could very well be wrong. I want to reiterate that I am not coming down on you personally. I can understand how this is very interesting. I don't think you are a crackpot and I wish you the best of luck. Also, you should carry pepper spray, I understand these big feet are strong.

Jeff
 

Old Crazy

Explorer
Oct 13, 2007
481
93
Stinking Creek, NJ
hey Old Crazy,I just seen a bear a few days ago a mile from my house in laurel lake,just south of Millville.

I'm familiar with the Laurel Lake area. I drive right through it whenever I go to Bridgeton or Upper Deerfield.

I saw a cougar back in 78 when I was canoeing the mullica at age 14.where did you see yours at?

I have never actually seen a mountain lion in the pine barrens, but on two occasions I have seen tracks that were just too damn big to be a bobcat. Last Feberuary, when there was 1'-2' of snow on the ground, I was hiking about a mile south of Apple Pie Fire Tower on the Batona Trail when I took a detour down a fire line to uhhh...ummm...well...ah...I guess you could say to take care of some pressing business [BLUSH] Anyway...LOL...as I'm walking down this fireline, I spot some deer tracks in the snow, which by the size of the gait indicated that it was an adult, and some very large cat paw prints right next to the deer tracks. The cat paw prints were as big as my fist, and they were right next to, and in some spots, right over top of the deer tracks as if the cat was tracking the deer. I followed these tracks for a few hundred yards and the pattern remained the same. Again, I didn't see a mountain lion, but I have never seen bobcat tracks anywhere near that big, and I have never heard of a bobcat taking down an adult deer.

I've done a lot of night hiking in the barrens myself and the only thing I've actually seen out there to fear are young doped up drunks driving around and acting insane. I have shook up a few people at night myself playing on jersey devil fear back when i was young and could actually out run people in the woods.Too old and fat to run now so i don't pick on people so much anymore:)

I make it a habit of not overnighting in any campsite on a Friday or Saturday night that is within a mile of a road, regardless of where I'm hiking in the country. High school kids use campsites that are in close proximity to a road as party spots on weekends. Even if they don't confront you in any way directly when they're all tuned up, the noise they make will keep you awake half the night. One night I walked into Batona Camp about two hours after dark. It was a miserable night of intermitent rain and sleet with high winds. Ice was accumulating on the ground and the tree branches were starting to become heavy and bend down. I figured there was no way anybody would be partying out there that night in the weather, so I set up my tent (yes, I had a permit :D) About 10pm two carloads of people come barreling in and I spend the next few hours being entertained with drunken yells, screams, laughs, a radio and car horns. But the real fun started when two people broke out some hardware and started shooting wildly all over the campsite. I jumped out of my sleeping bag and tent as fast as I could and slid on my belly in the ice to take cover behind tree. I stayed behind the tree, shivering and wet for about 45 minutes until the two carloads of people abrupty took off. When I got back into my tent, my clothes were completely soaked through, the inside of my tent got wet when I abruptly exited it and left the door open, and I spent one miserable miserable, cold, wet night out there. Those folks who decided to pop off a couple boxes of ammo in the campsite are fortunate that I don't carry illegally, otherwise they would have driven their cars out of there on the rims. :mad:
 

Banjo

Scout
Apr 17, 2005
76
0
S.W. Missouri
While walking through the woods after midnight with no flashlight down in Virginia, my buddy and I heard something strange moving through the brush near us. We stopped and listened, thinking someone was trying to sneak up on us where we were camping. Some of the guys where I went to school would do that. The sound from the footsteps were too heavy to be human. We had crouched down to try to stay out of sight as we scanned the area. Then we saw it. There was a white shape moving very slowly ththrough the woods. It had no distinct shape, but was only about four or five foot high. Ok cue up the he's crazy music. I felt about on the ground for a good sized branch or rock in case this thing meant to do us harm. My buddy was quite nervous at this point. I managed to find two sticks that probably would have been useless, but they were better than nothing.The only time I had ever been startled down there or shaken while hiking, was when I startled and owl from a low branch right in front of me as I was hiking back to the school. It was gigantic looking at it within that first two or three seconds, not realizing what had just scared the crap out of me. Anway, I took the smaller of the sticks and threw it at the shape. It stopped moving. I don't know whether it was because I hit it or, it landed nearby it causing it to stop. A second or two later I heard a soft moooo. A gate must have been left open at the farm nearby again, because lo and behold it was a cow. We both laughed and went on our way. When we got back to camp it made for a good tale.

I have on one occasion seen light in a window where no one could have been. (could have been normally). I have heard children playing where there were no children to be found, especially at the hour when we heard them. I and many other people have heard footsteps where no one should have been. The noises were certainly not the steam rattling the pipes in the radiators, that you could hear moving from room to room. Was it paranormal? Who knows, I remain sceptical, but part of me wonders with a very remote possibility that it could have been.

It would be cool though if definitive proof on national live tv of bigfoot, the Jersey Devil, a ufo landing and E.T. stepping out of it, or rational decisions being made from the halls of government. It would sure light up the forum!! But until we see it I'm afraid they will be remain myths. I do remain open to the fact that intelligent life does exist elsewhere in the universe. It is too big for it not to. Ok, its way past time when I should be in bed. Maybe tomorrow the proof will appear on television. There sure is very little intelligence shown there, even with the hundreds of channels that we have to choose from.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,384
113
40
camden county
My issue with the video has always been the animals behavior. Certain animal behavior is consistent among all species and they just don't look back like that. They stop and stare, then bolt, or bolt, or stare and charge. An animal may behave like that if it is familiar with being around humans, but I doubt it. When I was in high school and intrigued by these videos I thought it was widely established that is was a hoax and admitted by the creator. It seems in recent years it has resurfaced as a possibility, created by the TV for entertainment.
 

Adam Buchler

Scout
Nov 5, 2011
87
3
34
Adam,
I appreciate your detailed response. This is really a fruitless disscussion I suppose since I can't prove it doesn't exist and you can't prove it does. Clearly you are very interested in this pursuit and as far as I can see, this interest doesn't adversly affect anyone else. Therefore my opinion on the matter really shouldn't affect you one way or the other.

I was referring to the Patterson film. I find the scientific evidence inconclusive and flawed fundamentally. Keep in mind that these shows are bias toward the existence of BF for good television, entertainment. I've seen a few shows (though not as many as you I am sure) and I am far from convienced. I thought the film was really cool when i was a kid, but I now when I see it, it really does look like a guy in a suit. The actor has even come forward. Why doesn't the big foot run if they are so reclusive? According to Philip Morris (the guy who claims to have sold him the suit), the costumes were used for side show acts were an attactive woman transforms into an ape...hence the boobs.

Bobcats are rare but are a real animal. they were re-introduced to the pines in (circa) 1978 with transmitters for tracking purposes. Mountain Lions are not recognized or accepted as a currently indigenous animal of the pines. Most sightings are speculated to be that of former pets. There is some consideration that they might exist in the wild here in the pines. ML's are of course, undeniably, real animals.

I think what I find most confusing is the sudden interest in bigfoot in NJ. As far as I know there is no historical or natural record or evidence to justify the consideration. It is like looking for the Jersey Devil in Washington state. Does it stem from the Big Red Eye monster in north Jersey?

BUT....like I mentioned before, it is a pointless disscussion. I could very well be wrong. I want to reiterate that I am not coming down on you personally. I can understand how this is very interesting. I don't think you are a crackpot and I wish you the best of luck. Also, you should carry pepper spray, I understand these big feet are strong.

Jeff
Jeff i agree with you 100% but i figured I would give you my schpeel anyway lol. I enjoy the debate with people like you who are staunch skeptics....I post on some bigfoot forums and it gets old after awhile because people on there are quick to accept every snap,crackle, and pop in the woods as bigfoot related. But Jeff I can only hope that one day you're walking through the pines and a bigfoot decides to greet you...I hope i'm the first person you tell lol.
 

Adam Buchler

Scout
Nov 5, 2011
87
3
34
My issue with the video has always been the animals behavior. Certain animal behavior is consistent among all species and they just don't look back like that. They stop and stare, then bolt, or bolt, or stare and charge. An animal may behave like that if it is familiar with being around humans, but I doubt it. When I was in high school and intrigued by these videos I thought it was widely established that is was a hoax and admitted by the creator. It seems in recent years it has resurfaced as a possibility, created by the TV for entertainment.
To play devils advocate you would expect animals to act a certain way because animals don't have critical thinking skills and at on instincts and reflexes. I you pretend that bigfoot is a real animal they have to be fairly intelligent...more so than any of the other great apes...to what extent though is anybodies guess. I'm sure you have seen on TV people who walk right up to a pack of gorillas or chimps and sit there interacting...apes have the ability to think to some degree so I don't think it always comes down to a fight or flight response with intelligent animals. Maybe Patterson's bigfoot didn't see them as a major threat and decided to just keep an eye on them as it walked away. I think that if you consider a BF to be more so of a man than just a monkey that walks on 2 feet it's easier to expect more "human-like" behavior from them, in which case you wouldn't expect them to always just run or attack at the sight of an intruder. This is just my thought on the matter.
 

dragoncjo

Piney
Aug 12, 2005
1,384
113
40
camden county
I think with Bigfoot in the pines you have to look into whether or not a species like that could survive in the pines, let's think realistically. In reality, it would have to be more than one and more like a population, potentially connected to other populations, so let's say 20-30 bigfoots. So lets think about it, I'm guessing they are omnivores, so they could eat deer, berries, plants, etc. I'm not sure there is enough food to support a populations of bear, let alone a bf. It is a difficult existence in the barrens. Now lets think of evidence of their presence. We have extremely sandy soil, tracks show up well, especially after rain. We have tons of dirt roads that intersect sections of forest, along with tons of hikers, orv's, hunters, if tracks were showing up they would get reported. Also every section of the pine barrens is explored, evidence of primate 'dwellings'(lack of a better word) would show up and be reported. Guys who do telemtry studies on snakes and other species tromp through the barrens and never seen any signs of large mammals in the very desolate areas these studies lead us to. Also at the end of the day the pines aren't really that big. They are big because its NJ, but comparing against other states the pinelands core area simply isn't that big. A bf would be fairly isolated here, I'm not sure how they would get to other imaginary populations say in PA. Also we have no caves and very few big uprooted stumps for them to hunker down in extreme cold.....basically, thinking realistically it just isn't feasible. It's like saying a whale could be living in a big lake. The pine barrens aren't the Pacific Northwest.
 

manumuskin

Piney
Jul 20, 2003
8,121
1,980
57
millville nj
www.youtube.com
I follow Jeff's logic,sort of and Banjo's sot of too. If sasquatch is real I do not believe it to be physical. It is too damn big to escape capture or killing indefinitely especially seeing it is now a single critter but a population of them.Cougars are real.Their in zoos and we have cougar skins,skeletons,people injured and killed by cougars every year. Where is sasquatch's skeletons?hides?We now have heat seeking cameras,infrared scopes.Uncle Sam can take a photo of my bald spot from outer space if he wants too.So no,I don't believe there are physical bigfoots walking among us.The Coelecanth hid in the ocean deeps for thousands of years (some would say millions) and all we had was fossils but they were in the ocean deep.These creatures are terrestial.
On Banjo's line I do believe in Spirits,other dimensions which physicists claim they have proven exist through math though my math skills are not that advanced.No I haven't been visited and I've never seen a UFO but if other dimensions are real and other creatures have learned how to pass in and out of different dimensions it would be impossible for us to capture such creatures.What they take as extrordinary ufo speed when they disappear suddenly may not be speed but slipping out of this dimension into another.A favorite saying of mine is "Yesterdays magic is todays science" No I can't prove spirits or other dimensions exist. They are either out of the reach of physical science or the math confounds me.I have further thoughts on the spirtual line of what sasquatch may be but it would probably kill several people on the forum through excessive laughter.My greatest possibility in admitting to the existence of Bigfoot is the belief of native Americans when first met by colonists is that they already had the sasquatch legend and I believe they thought he was spirit.I Believe they may be right. Let me get back to this weeks episode of the Twilight Zone now. :)
 

Adam Buchler

Scout
Nov 5, 2011
87
3
34
I think with Bigfoot in the pines you have to look into whether or not a species like that could survive in the pines, let's think realistically. In reality, it would have to be more than one and more like a population, potentially connected to other populations, so let's say 20-30 bigfoots. So lets think about it, I'm guessing they are omnivores, so they could eat deer, berries, plants, etc. I'm not sure there is enough food to support a populations of bear, let alone a bf. It is a difficult existence in the barrens. Now lets think of evidence of their presence. We have extremely sandy soil, tracks show up well, especially after rain. We have tons of dirt roads that intersect sections of forest, along with tons of hikers, orv's, hunters, if tracks were showing up they would get reported. Also every section of the pine barrens is explored, evidence of primate 'dwellings'(lack of a better word) would show up and be reported. Guys who do telemtry studies on snakes and other species tromp through the barrens and never seen any signs of large mammals in the very desolate areas these studies lead us to. Also at the end of the day the pines aren't really that big. They are big because its NJ, but comparing against other states the pinelands core area simply isn't that big. A bf would be fairly isolated here, I'm not sure how they would get to other imaginary populations say in PA. Also we have no caves and very few big uprooted stumps for them to hunker down in extreme cold.....basically, thinking realistically it just isn't feasible. It's like saying a whale could be living in a big lake. The pine barrens aren't the Pacific Northwest.
You make good points. In my mind the pines are definitely not an area that would hold a isolated population of bigfoots...like you said it really is just too small. Instead my "theory" is that it is a place that they might move in and out of during certain times of year...probably fall/winter mostly. So the pines don't necessarily have to support such a large animal long-term. I know that large animals move out of higher elevation during the winter and fall seasons. I think that the appalachians could be a higher elevation corrodor that allows them to move north/south along the eastern US. The pines in NJ are kind of an off shoot of the appalachian wilderness if you think about it. Why couldn't small numbers of these animals be moving through the pines seasonally out of NY and north eastern PA down thru north western NJ or from the southern boarder of NJ via Delaware/maryland(there are lots of reports from DE,MD,NY,NJ). There are plenty of deer and smaller animals in the pines which you would expect such an animal to eat. I don't think its really a stretch to say that small numbers of BF could keep themselves feed as they pass through.
And as for what you said about scientific types not reporting anything like tracks or dwellings......I would not expect these people to report anything for sake of keeping their job. Look at me for example...I made an inquiry about BF on this site and look at all the people who can't take it seriously. If someone, lets say, from the PPA went to their boss and said hey I found BF tracks out there....I'm guessing they wouldn't be working for the PPA anymore lol. So unfortunately you can't make the argument "well how come science hasn't found/discovered/reported and BF findings." People always like to bring that up but the stigma associated with BF deters about 99.9% of the scientific community from actually acting on anything unusual they might find related to BF. So that means you have to rely on eye witness accounts from Joe Schmoe....kinda sucks but it's really the only place you're gonna have a chance at hearing genuine encounters(and ofcourse some that aren't genuine lol). And like I've said before, there are a lot more eye witness reports of sasquatch in the pines than you might expect...so are every single one of those people lying or misidentifying another animal? I find it hard to believe that literally 100% of the reports I've read are bogus. It seems almost moronic to think that when you consider the shear number of eye witness reports that there are in the pines let alone north america(if you do alittle research you'll see just how many there are, bfro.net is a good place to start)
And btw in the past 2 days I've heard 2 different people(on this site) say that they just recently saw black bear outside of millville. I also spoke with someone from the PPA about a week ago and they told me that they have been getting increasing numbers of BB reports since 2003.....so apparently they are making a come back.
 
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