Sasquatch in the Pines

[manumuskin]

Yes Black Bear are making a comeback and as soon as they allow a hunting season on them hunters will be bringing them in left and right. Now I assume that sasquatech obviously being of the primate persuasion lives in family groups or tribes since every large primate I know of live in groups,some quite large.No large Primate I know of is a loner.Do you know how much food a creature the size of bigfoot would have to have to live? I assume they would either be herbivores like gorillas or omnivores like chimps or humans. The barrens are called that for a reason.Unless your a deer and can eat twigs or a bear and can live off ants,grubs and the occasional bait pile there is not much to eat for a band of creatures that size.Puma live off of deer so there is plenty to eat here for a big cat.How would sasquatch catch deer?I doubt he's fast enough.Can they make projectile weaponry?Do you have any idea how many hunters would kill a sasquatch in a heart beat to be the first one to bring in a sasquatch?There are no laws on sasquatch hunting so I'd say they'd be fair game. Now do sasquatch have better senses then deer?deer are waylaid by hunters every year.Starting tomorrow you'll see how successful human hunters are (even incompetent ones) at bringing down deer with modern weapons. How does sasquatch in the heavily hunted pine barrens avoid becoming a prized trophy on some hunters mantle? Any hunter in camo with his scent disguised has an advantage over any animal that is moving.I believe a cougar could remain undetected in the barrens for possibly years but a family of sasquatches is something different.To date sasquatch is either a ninja or he is a spirit or if flesh and bone he can either switch dimensions at will or has some hi tech way of not only becoming invisible in visible wavelengths of light bu infrared and heat sensing technology as well.Just what were the native american reports on sasquatch? I almost remeber reading they thought he was a spirit?
Al

 

[dogg57]

Al Bear season starts tomorrow In the northern part of the state only

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/bearseason_info.htm

 

[Adam Buchler]

I have read several reports of them eating bark and "pieces of tree." Now obviously that hearsay but none the less people have reported seeing them do it....and like I said before there are plenty of animals for the to eat(which you agree with it seems). As for hunting deer, many people who claim to have seen them do it(usually its other hunters that see this) they seem to use a "panic and drive" method. Basically one individual uses loud vocalizations to startle and drive deer toward another sasquatch who is waiting to pounce. Also, I would say(and this is just my estimation) somewhere between 50-60% for reports i've read involve large rocks and sticks being thrown with impressive accuracy...these are usually the reports of hikers or campers. So I was thinking that its reasonable to think that such a large ape which you could imagine would be ridiculously strong(they say a 150lb chimp has the "strength of 7 fully grown men"....so imagine a 500-700lb sasquatch) could probably use large rocks and other objects to hurl at deer from a fairly close range to perhaps stun or maybe even kill. Now I know that these might sound like wishful thinking but if you really consider that sasquatch(if it is real) is most likely some form of "prehistoric man".....ape-like, but I would imagine much much closer to man than chimp on the evolutionary scale. So if you entertain the possibility that they could be real then is it really that ridiculous to think that they might use "tools" or "weapons" to be pretty effective hunters? I could be wrong but I think chimps use crude forms of "weaponry" to hunt? what are your thoughts? And I would imagine that their senses are within the realm of primate
Also, as a side note, when you consider that humans evolved from chimps...and that there were obviously many species of "ape-men" in between, what are the chances that chimps are still here...humans are still here....but every single intermediate species (and all of those ape-men species that could have branched off of that direct evolutionary line) are completely extinct?...leaving just chimps and humans. I think that sounds more ridiculous than thinking that one or more of those species is still around and has enough intelligence and cunning to elude being killed or captured to the extent that it is an easy catalogued animal. Thousands of people in modern times report seeing them....on bfro.net(which is just one data base) there is literally at least one new report submitted every single day. Also, indians, vikings, and other explorers over 100s of years have INDEPENDENTLY reported seeing giant man like hairy creatures that live in the woods. And there is plenty of physical evidence like you would expect for any living animal out there....expect when physical evidence is present for BF(by one of the few people out there who are actually willing to openly present) it is completely disregarded by everyone and anyone. The bias against BF is waaaaaay worse than the bias for BF...so you really can't expect science to to accept such an animal without a body, and even when that does happen, I imagine that rumors of hoax and bullshit will circulate for weeks and weeks before the public and science actually accepts it.....that DOES NOT mean that you as an individual can pretty easily come to the conclusion that these animals in all likely-hood are probably real(once you've done the research yourself). And I read tons of reports from hunters that see these thing in plain sight...you think that such a person would readily shoot but the experience is usually so surreal that killing it isn't the common reaction....generally hunters who have such experiences say something along the lines of "it looked sooo human I didn't feel right shooting it..." On the other hand I have read about hunters and trappers who have killed them....these are usually stories from british columbia and canada...and the individuals in question don't give a f*** about progressing science or "showing the people" that bigfoot is real. They live alone in the woods for gods sake lol. I don't think being famous is on their list of things too do.

 

[manumuskin]

well one false assumption you have made is that I believe in biological evolution.I think thats a bigger hoax then Bigfoot.I don't even think those who believe in evolution believe that we descended from chimps but from a common ancestor with chimps.I personally descend from quakers,moonshiners,rebels,yanks,hillbillies,hugenots,an american indian woman,welsh,irish,scots,english,french and german folks too but never have I found a chimp or any other primate in the mix. Not saying i don't believe in natural selection or adaptation,just don't believe they create new information needed to create new species but actually decrease information and create geographical variations of a given kind that we have chosen to call species.
By the way that guy to the left is my gr gr gr grandad a rebel guerilla from ky.Handsome guy ain't he?

 

[Teegate]

All,

I don't want to hijack the thread but I think many of you may want to know this. This afternoon I had the privilege to learn more about Watering Place Hole that has been mentioned in a previous post. I have learned that as far back as 1858 this location was mentioned on "The New Map Of Burlington County" published by R. KKuhn & J. D. Janney. When I was told this I searched the map out online and was surprised that it was not on that map. So I sent a copy of that portion to Ted Gordon and he assured me it was since he had the map in his collection. I was then offered a chance to see the map and rushed over to view it. Sure enough, the "exact" same map that is online from the Library of Congress is not the same map that I was looking at. The map I was viewing was a wall map and the one online apparently was a flat map. Why the Watering Place Hole was omitted from the flat map is a mystery. And just for the record the wall map just called it "Watering Place."

Here is the portion of the 1858 map where "Watering Place" was shown on the wall map.

If you are interested in viewing this map you can view it easily here but it does not zoom in very far and Watering Place is not shown as I mentioned.

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Atlas/US/16998/Burlington+County+1859+Wall+Map/

Or you can download the complete map here. Be warned it is huge!

http://tinyurl.com/7xhhh9d

Guy

 

[Jerseyman]

Guy:

The map available on the Library of Congress website and Historic Mapworks website is the preliminary 1858 edition of the map that Parry, Sykes & Earl produced in the finished edition in 1859. While the one available digitally is vertical, the finished edition displays horizontally. Many corrections were made before Kuhn and Janney published the 1859 map. Hence, that is the difference between the map you exhibit above and the one that I presume Ted showed you. Both the 1858 and the 1859 maps are considered wall or sheet maps, the latter term derived from the fact that the map was printed in smaller sheets and then assembled and glued together before mounting on the cloth backing.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[woodjin]

Jeff i agree with you 100% but i figured I would give you my schpeel anyway lol. I enjoy the debate with people like you who are staunch skeptics....I post on some bigfoot forums and it gets old after awhile because people on there are quick to accept every snap,crackle, and pop in the woods as bigfoot related. But Jeff I can only hope that one day you're walking through the pines and a bigfoot decides to greet you...I hope i'm the first person you tell lol.

Fair enough. I think running into a bigfoot would certainly be quite an experience, and I promise that you will be the first to hear of it. Good luck with your quest.

 

[woodjin]

While walking through the woods after midnight with no flashlight down in Virginia, my buddy and I heard something strange moving through the brush near us. We stopped and listened, thinking someone was trying to sneak up on us where we were camping. Some of the guys where I went to school would do that. The sound from the footsteps were too heavy to be human. We had crouched down to try to stay out of sight as we scanned the area. Then we saw it. There was a white shape moving very slowly ththrough the woods. It had no distinct shape, but was only about four or five foot high. Ok cue up the he's crazy music. I felt about on the ground for a good sized branch or rock in case this thing meant to do us harm. My buddy was quite nervous at this point. I managed to find two sticks that probably would have been useless, but they were better than nothing.The only time I had ever been startled down there or shaken while hiking, was when I startled and owl from a low branch right in front of me as I was hiking back to the school. It was gigantic looking at it within that first two or three seconds, not realizing what had just scared the crap out of me. Anway, I took the smaller of the sticks and threw it at the shape. It stopped moving. I don't know whether it was because I hit it or, it landed nearby it causing it to stop. A second or two later I heard a soft moooo. A gate must have been left open at the farm nearby again, because lo and behold it was a cow. We both laughed and went on our way. When we got back to camp it made for a good tale.

That was very funny!!

 

[woodjin]

About 10pm two carloads of people come barreling in and I spend the next few hours being entertained with drunken yells, screams, laughs, a radio and car horns. But the real fun started when two people broke out some hardware and started shooting wildly all over the campsite. I jumped out of my sleeping bag and tent as fast as I could and slid on my belly in the ice to take cover behind tree. I stayed behind the tree, shivering and wet for about 45 minutes until the two carloads of people abrupty took off. When I got back into my tent, my clothes were completely soaked through, the inside of my tent got wet when I abruptly exited it and left the door open, and I spent one miserable miserable, cold, wet night out there. Those folks who decided to pop off a couple boxes of ammo in the campsite are fortunate that I don't carry illegally, otherwise they would have driven their cars out of there on the rims.

Man, what a terrible experience.

 

[woodjin]

All,

I don't want to hijack the thread but I think many of you may want to know this. This afternoon I had the privilege to learn more about Watering Place Hole that has been mentioned in a previous post. I have learned that as far back as 1858 this location was mentioned on "The New Map Of Burlington County" published by R. KKuhn & J. D. Janney. When I was told this I searched the map out online and was surprised that it was not on that map. So I sent a copy of that portion to Ted Gordon and he assured me it was since he had the map in his collection. I was then offered a chance to see the map and rushed over to view it. Sure enough, the "exact" same map that is online from the Library of Congress is not the same map that I was looking at. The map I was viewing was a wall map and the one online apparently was a flat map. Why the Watering Place Hole was omitted from the flat map is a mystery. And just for the record the wall map just called it "Watering Place."

Here is the portion of the 1858 map where "Watering Place" was shown on the wall map.

If you are interested in viewing this map you can view it easily here but it does not zoom in very far and Watering Place is not shown as I mentioned.

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Atlas/US/16998/Burlington County 1859 Wall Map/

Or you can download the complete map here. Be warned it is huge!

http://tinyurl.com/7xhhh9d

Guy

Great info, Guy. I imagine the watering place, being one of few natural ponds in the barrens (as opposed to spungs), was a rarity appreciated by early americans (and indians before them). The name most certainly depicts this as a popular watering spot for horses and perhaps to fill water jugs and bath. I bet there are a few dropped relics along it's banks now safely hidden beneath the sand.

Jeff

 

[Teegate]

Guy:

The map available on the Library of Congress website and Historic Mapworks website is the preliminary 1858 edition of the map that Parry, Sykes & Earl produced in the finished edition in 1859. While the one available digitally is vertical, the finished edition displays horizontally. Many corrections were made before Kuhn and Janney published the 1859 map. Hence, that is the difference between the map you exhibit above and the one that I presume Ted showed you. Both the 1858 and the 1859 maps are considered wall or sheet maps, the latter term derived from the fact that the map was printed in smaller sheets and then assembled and glued together before mounting on the cloth backing.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

Thanks Jerseyman! You would think if the map online was 1858 it would say so. Or say 1858/1859.

Guy

 

[manumuskin]

There for a minute I thought Guy was jumping into the Sasquatch discussion,I was astounded Then I realized he had a map for us ! much more in character! Great map! By the way I was under the assumption that the bombing range road is what backed that pond up and that is was a manmade pond.I guess I err? Where did Governors branch get such an unpiney like name? They don't even show the branch draining the pond on that map.Looks like Shards Mill Branch comes closest,is that the old Governors creek name?

 

[dragoncjo]

In regards to the reports on BFRO its been awhile since I viewed the NJ reports. I do remember that the ones I read seemed far fetched with very little supporting evidence. I believe one I read had the animal throwing rocks at people, there are no rocks in the barrens. I've watched just about every show a network has put on about BF and I find 90% of the people to be not very credible. Just because one lives in the woods, near the woods, hunts, etc. doesn't mean they are knowledgeable about it and what exists in it....many times the thing they saw or heard is very easily explained.

In regards to migrating through, you need to ask yourself why they would migrate through, I don't see any good reason. For those of us who have studied animals professional or as amateurs know that living in the barrens for most species is a tough existence. The environment can't support high densities of many species because there is simply no enough food sources. Also if this was some sort of migratory hot spot one would be seen by now, its a small state, densely populated surrounded by water, densely populated to the north and lots of water to the south.

Not trying to dismiss your hopes, whatever excuse one needs to get out in the woods and the barrens is good by me.

 

[manumuskin]

There are rocks in the barrens Chris,These damn beasts are throwing property stones! Thats why half of them are missing! Sasquatch did it! Watch out you big ape,I've got your number and a fist sized chunk of precambrian (flood) granite form lake superior and a good right arm.

 

[dragoncjo]

Hah, didn't think of that Al. If it were true it would be Teegate versus the Stone Stealing Squatch.

 

[dogg57]

I moving to the NJ Pine Barrens

 

[Jerseyman]

Thanks Jerseyman! You would think if the map online was 1858 it would say so. Or say 1858/1859.

Guy

Guy:

If you look closely at the title block for the LOC map, you will see it DOES say 1858.

I checked the 1833 Gordon and the 1849 Otley and Whiteford and the watering hole does not appear on either map.

Best regards,
Jerseyman

 

[Teegate]

Jerseyman,

Yes it does. Thanks! I was so zoned in that it was the same map I missed the year difference.

Guy

 

[Teegate]

I think the confusion comes in when they call it an 1859 map at this link. It actually is the 1858 map. Zoom in on the map and you can see that.

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Atlas/US/16998/Burlington County 1859 Wall Map/

Guy

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Are we certain that Governor's Pond is natural?