Sasquatch in the Pines
- Thread starter Adam Buchler
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Just thinking out loud here...
I was wondering if Governor's Pond was named in honor of Jeremiah Basse, one of the early governors. Bass River is named after him (so I understand), so maybe this pond as well?
I was wondering if Governor's Pond was named in honor of Jeremiah Basse, one of the early governors. Bass River is named after him (so I understand), so maybe this pond as well?
Ahhhh, that was funny! Yeah, Gabe, as Dogg was saying that is a pretty major point they made about it. I suspect it is supplemented by run off from the hills that surround it, and having a thick clay base that retains the water. But I recall Bob and I and Guy and Al examined the feeder stream. Bob might have even walked it's length prior to that. It is subtle, but consistant.
Jeff
I don't doubt it. But take a look at the 1931 aerial and note that the pond seems to be the result of the stream getting backed up by a road/causeway.
Actually, I'm thinking that the stream was called Governor's Stream before the pond was called Governor's Pond.
there is a strong seep spring in that tall patch of pines above the pond.I could not pinpoint the exact spot of emergence but within 50 ft it went from nothing to a good flow the last time i looked.This probably changes with water table fluctuations I imagine.I have noticed at times the stream below the pond is quite dry and sometimes the stream flows.Would be interested to know if the stream above runs dry. That has to be one of the most beautiful locations in the barrens.It's ashame they had to pick that spot to build a road and a bombing range.Kinda spoils it for me.
Perhaps it was Silica enhancement.
I am enjoying the discussion of this topic. Especially the fact that folks with opposing view points can discuss it civily whether they agree with each other or not. Because the people that I have met through this forum are such good people, is why I enjoy this site.
The scarcity of a food supply to support a population of BF makes me think that they do not exist here. As was mentioned earlier due to the number of people who are in the pines for as many diverse reasons, I think there would be more physical evidence of such a population. Footprints being the major sign. While reading the latest posts, two things crossed my mind. Multi dimensions and reliability of stories.
Multi Dimensions.
Picture an 8x10 sheet of paper. It has length width and depth, or three dimensions. For it to exist two dimensionaly, it would only have length and width. If a three dimensional sphere were to pass through that plane, it would first appear as a dot on the page. The dot would expand into a larger circle, only to shrink back to a dot and dissapear. If one were existing in that two dimensional plane, it would appear as if there was a small object that would grow in width and recede back to nothing. We would wonder what the heck was that if we saw it. Who would belive us? Things just don't appear and dissappear. I took a class in linear algebra that dealt with the location, and orientation of objects in three dimensional space. I recognized some of the concepts from tinkering with 3D computer modeling and animation. (For those interested in 3D modeling, imaging and animation, there is a great FREE program called Blender. The results can be as good as Pixar and the newer Starwars movies.) Through my discussions with my instructor, by expanding some of the equations, one could theoretically show the position and orientation of x number of dimensional objects in x dimensions of space. How would a four dimensional object or being (if they exist) appear in our thee dimensional existance?
A Mobius strip is a strip of paper which is given a twist and connected at both ends. It gives a two sided piece of paper one side.
A Klein Bottle is an object that I THINK can only exist in four? dimensional space. It like the mobius strip only has one surface. Glass blowers have cheated and created them by passing the neck of the bottle through the side of it to connect it to the inside. Look it up its interesting.
Reliability of stories.
For many years my father thought that his grandfather died fighting a fire in Vineland. He later found his obituary on a trip to Vineland, and learned that he died from pnuemonia due to Tuberculosis. After my father died I went to the Vineland Historical Society to try to find out more about my family. The trip paid off with copies of more obituaries, and scans from pages of one of the volunteer fire companies log books. There was an entry where the company responded to a fire where my great grandfather was struck by the hose carriage, and suffered a broken leg. I believe that my father must have heard this story from his father or uncles at a young age, and over the years his recollection of it was that he died while fighting the fire.
Could the stories of big hairy men be tales told of Scandanavian explorers in their furs and beards? Did their size grow because of heavy layers of furs and big bushy beards and wild hair? Were they physically larger than the native population of north America? I can see how in the time between the Nordic expeditions and the colonization of America that these stories could transform the Viking from men into giant hairy manlike creatures with superhuman strength.
Is bigfoot really a four dimensional being that only passes through our three dimension leaving little to no trace? Ok I'm really stretching on that one.
I can picture a scene in a tavern deep in the pines at a late hour a group of men sitting in the glow of a fireplace on a December night two hundred years ago. A man is relating to the others of how his grandfather was in the very same tavern when Joe Mulliner came in with a few of his men and created quite a scene, danced with some of the ladies had a few drinks, and disappeared back into the night. Here we are sitting in the glow of our monitors telling stories of our own and ones we have heard. Debating fact from fiction, myth from reality. All about the same pine forest on a night in December.
I am enjoying the discussion of this topic. Especially the fact that folks with opposing view points can discuss it civily whether they agree with each other or not. Because the people that I have met through this forum are such good people, is why I enjoy this site.
The scarcity of a food supply to support a population of BF makes me think that they do not exist here. As was mentioned earlier due to the number of people who are in the pines for as many diverse reasons, I think there would be more physical evidence of such a population. Footprints being the major sign. While reading the latest posts, two things crossed my mind. Multi dimensions and reliability of stories.
Multi Dimensions.
Picture an 8x10 sheet of paper. It has length width and depth, or three dimensions. For it to exist two dimensionaly, it would only have length and width. If a three dimensional sphere were to pass through that plane, it would first appear as a dot on the page. The dot would expand into a larger circle, only to shrink back to a dot and dissapear. If one were existing in that two dimensional plane, it would appear as if there was a small object that would grow in width and recede back to nothing. We would wonder what the heck was that if we saw it. Who would belive us? Things just don't appear and dissappear. I took a class in linear algebra that dealt with the location, and orientation of objects in three dimensional space. I recognized some of the concepts from tinkering with 3D computer modeling and animation. (For those interested in 3D modeling, imaging and animation, there is a great FREE program called Blender. The results can be as good as Pixar and the newer Starwars movies.) Through my discussions with my instructor, by expanding some of the equations, one could theoretically show the position and orientation of x number of dimensional objects in x dimensions of space. How would a four dimensional object or being (if they exist) appear in our thee dimensional existance?
A Mobius strip is a strip of paper which is given a twist and connected at both ends. It gives a two sided piece of paper one side.
A Klein Bottle is an object that I THINK can only exist in four? dimensional space. It like the mobius strip only has one surface. Glass blowers have cheated and created them by passing the neck of the bottle through the side of it to connect it to the inside. Look it up its interesting.
Reliability of stories.
For many years my father thought that his grandfather died fighting a fire in Vineland. He later found his obituary on a trip to Vineland, and learned that he died from pnuemonia due to Tuberculosis. After my father died I went to the Vineland Historical Society to try to find out more about my family. The trip paid off with copies of more obituaries, and scans from pages of one of the volunteer fire companies log books. There was an entry where the company responded to a fire where my great grandfather was struck by the hose carriage, and suffered a broken leg. I believe that my father must have heard this story from his father or uncles at a young age, and over the years his recollection of it was that he died while fighting the fire.
Could the stories of big hairy men be tales told of Scandanavian explorers in their furs and beards? Did their size grow because of heavy layers of furs and big bushy beards and wild hair? Were they physically larger than the native population of north America? I can see how in the time between the Nordic expeditions and the colonization of America that these stories could transform the Viking from men into giant hairy manlike creatures with superhuman strength.
Is bigfoot really a four dimensional being that only passes through our three dimension leaving little to no trace? Ok I'm really stretching on that one.
I can picture a scene in a tavern deep in the pines at a late hour a group of men sitting in the glow of a fireplace on a December night two hundred years ago. A man is relating to the others of how his grandfather was in the very same tavern when Joe Mulliner came in with a few of his men and created quite a scene, danced with some of the ladies had a few drinks, and disappeared back into the night. Here we are sitting in the glow of our monitors telling stories of our own and ones we have heard. Debating fact from fiction, myth from reality. All about the same pine forest on a night in December.
Yea you make good point about the lack of food in the barrens...that's why I was suggesting that they might just move thru the pines as they move north/south along the east cost. Who knows maybe they stubble into the pines accidentally during "migration."And if not accidentally...maybe they love pine nuts lol? Good source of fat, fiber, and protein from what I understand. The pines have plenty of them. Regardless you make a good point. Although I'm confused about your comment "one would have been seen by now" ....people have reported seeing them in the pines which is why I started looking there lol. And I also agree about about the guys you see on TV who are usually not very knowledgeable about wildlife in general so they make a lot of claims based on crap. Unfortunately I have no choice but to be associated with them in the eyes of most people. Personally, I am not an avid outdoors man. I do recognize though how having knowledge of the areas wildlife is absolutely essential for what I am trying to do so I am doing my best to learn about it. And yes many of the NJ reports are very ambiguous, however there are a few that flat out involve plain sight of one or more sasquatch(there are a couple from bass river that I can think of off the top of my head, i think one was actually from a state trooper).....so it's at least something to consider. Know someone from hammonton who says his father and grandfather had an experience while hunting. I don't know the details of the story(because they will only discuss it with "reserved company") but I believe the story involves them actually seeing one in the pines. Are they making it up? who knows
I have to admit that I had never been to the pines before I started bigfooting in may and my friend and I have both grown to enjoy it a lot. I regret not knowing about it before. It's a great place....helps me forget about all the BS I have to deal with in everyday life...work/school/people etc.
I think your viking concept is a little far fetched for me lol...I would sooner accept that the indians just made the whole thing up because they were hitting the peace pipe a little too much. In any case....one of these nights I'm gonna catch one on camera and post it to settle the debate...the thread will be called "Adam 1....Pineys 0" so keep an eye out for it
Yeah, that is definitely not a night in the woods I look back to with fondness, but a group of stoned people in a campsite can do a whole lot worse than make noise and fire guns. The year I hiked the Appalachian Trail there was a thru-hiker who stopped for the evening at a shelter site where a bunch of teens were partying. He set up his tent and stowed all his gear inside, then made the 1/2 mile climb down the side of a mountain to get some water. As he was returning to the campsite he heard the group of partyers laughing and cheering, and he saw the glow of a big fire. When the campsite finally came into view, he discovered that the source of the big fire they set was his tent and backpack.
I can picture a scene in a tavern deep in the pines at a late hour a group of men sitting in the glow of a fireplace on a December night two hundred years ago. A man is relating to the others of how his grandfather was in the very same tavern when Joe Mulliner came in with a few of his men and created quite a scene, danced with some of the ladies had a few drinks, and disappeared back into the night. Here we are sitting in the glow of our monitors telling stories of our own and ones we have heard. Debating fact from fiction, myth from reality. All about the same pine forest on a night in December.[/quote]
he would appears a dot entering and leaving as you said but that is only if you caught an extra dimensional creature entering and leaving our dimensions as ufo's have appeared.once here the extra dimensional creature would appear in three dimensions since that is all we have and all we can perceive here
as far as sasquatch being vikings I can't buy that.The vikings were east coast landers and sasquatch originated as far as we know in the northwest and it wouldn't have been long before a war broke out and the indians killed a viking and got to examine him.
I'm glad to see someone else believes in the potential for other dimensions
he would appears a dot entering and leaving as you said but that is only if you caught an extra dimensional creature entering and leaving our dimensions as ufo's have appeared.once here the extra dimensional creature would appear in three dimensions since that is all we have and all we can perceive here
as far as sasquatch being vikings I can't buy that.The vikings were east coast landers and sasquatch originated as far as we know in the northwest and it wouldn't have been long before a war broke out and the indians killed a viking and got to examine him.
I'm glad to see someone else believes in the potential for other dimensions
The barrens has no pine nut.I think your referring to the nut on ponderosa pine,quite nutritous and easy to gather as you say.here all we have are pitch pine cones and seeds.To get the seeds out you have to roast the cones or else have teeth like a red squirrel.They are edible but so small and so hard to get out it would be a full time business for a tribe just to keep one of them fed if they relied on these. The indians didn't even make villages in the barrens because of the lack of food and arable soil.They burnt the barrens to keep the woods open and used them as a hunting ground for deer and bear but stuck mainly to the delaware river valley and the rivers off the bay down here my way because the soil was better and so was the fishing.In summer they set up camps along the coast for fishing and shell fishing but in fall they headed back to their villages. The only evidence I believe for indians in the barrens is small hunting camps along the navigable streams.
I understand what you mean by bigfoot moving through but to use south jersey as a corridor he is going to run into a big problem.The Delaware bay.We are the only large ape I know of that swims and some of us never acquire the art.Wilderness survival is or was a side hobby of mine since youth and from my knowledge of it I just can't see where a tribe of these could make it in the barrens without roaming the whole barrens continually which means crossing roads and rummaging through peoples trash.They are too big to be slick enough to get away with it.Even a coon gets caught eventually. Personally it would be way cool to have sasquatch around.They would probably eat what we could and we could learn surviuval skills off them for sure but if your ever going to find anything like that I'd head for the Amazon or the Congo.Contrary to popular belief the Barrens are no wilderness.You'd be hard pressesd to get a mile off a driveable sand road or more then five miles from a blacktop road.I used to occasionally help lost people out of the woods,I don't even see anyone lost anymore,they all have gps's. On the other hand there have been found primitive tribes that have no contact with syphilization in the amazon,now that is interesting.They are very warlike and according to neighboring tribes kill anyone who goes into their territory.There are a couple images taken of a village from aircraft and the men are brandishing spears at the sky.I forget the name for them but it was an article in Nat Geo. Would love to be able to learn skills off those guys but they'd kill me
Al
Its a shame that people out partying have to create such a rucus that it ruins other peoples experiences. Having attended many multi day events, I go with the expectationt that it will be noisy unti the wee hours of the morning, and trying to get a good nights sleep can be very difficult. But I stay up until the wee hours playing music with guitar and banjo, so by the time I go to bed I can't keep my eyes open even if I tried. Too bad the tents and campers get so hot once the sun comes up. Its a small consolation that those who attend these events with the sole intention of partying and creating a ruckus, is that they too are awakened by the heat and suffer far greater from the heat.
It is true that the indians had physical evidence that the Vikings were mere men. But for those who never saw a Viking, and only heard stories of them many generations later, it is very possible that their physical description could be alterd to mythic proportions. As the stories spread further from the area of contact, the story gets "better" over time. Audie Murphy was I believe the inspiration for Rambo. Audies exploits were real. He was not a the hulk that Rambo was. Strong yes, he had a tough hard working life, but he was not big. I am sure that the indians saw strange things at night that if it were daytime they would be able to expain them. A big hairy man is not that far fetched under such circumstances. Its like the game of telephone. Of course it does not explain the sightings in the Pacific northwest. The Viking Sasquatch idea was just something that popped into my head for some reason.
Al, you are absolutly right. A four dimensional object would appear to us a three dimensional. It is easy to visualize how one could appear and disappear in a one or two dimensional environment. My brain hurt trying to picture it when I understood the mathmatical part of of it. Last night, my brain hurt trying to remember the mathmatical part of it. As for trying to visualize multi dimensional being or objects in our 3D environment........
It is true that the indians had physical evidence that the Vikings were mere men. But for those who never saw a Viking, and only heard stories of them many generations later, it is very possible that their physical description could be alterd to mythic proportions. As the stories spread further from the area of contact, the story gets "better" over time. Audie Murphy was I believe the inspiration for Rambo. Audies exploits were real. He was not a the hulk that Rambo was. Strong yes, he had a tough hard working life, but he was not big. I am sure that the indians saw strange things at night that if it were daytime they would be able to expain them. A big hairy man is not that far fetched under such circumstances. Its like the game of telephone. Of course it does not explain the sightings in the Pacific northwest. The Viking Sasquatch idea was just something that popped into my head for some reason.
Al, you are absolutly right. A four dimensional object would appear to us a three dimensional. It is easy to visualize how one could appear and disappear in a one or two dimensional environment. My brain hurt trying to picture it when I understood the mathmatical part of of it. Last night, my brain hurt trying to remember the mathmatical part of it. As for trying to visualize multi dimensional being or objects in our 3D environment........
Yes Banjo,it is impossible for us to visualize more dimensions then were exposed to. I get incredulous looks when I mention more dimensions then our own but physicists today claim they have proven it mathematically,the problem is my math doesn't extend beyond the most basic algebra. I do wish i knew calculus and trig because an advanced understanding of physics is not possible without them. Other dimensions could not only explain ufo's and many other happenings but could even explain many events looked upon as miracles in the Bible. Think of a person from three hundred years ago being brought back to life today.Our inventions such as tv, cd players,telephones,lasers,automobiles would be magic to him just as someone appearing in front of us out of nowhere would seem magic to us but invisibility while not highly publicized is already reality.They are now able to bend light around objects and effectively make them disappear,I can produce links and videos if need be.If you cannot see it it is effectively not there,is it magic?No just science the masses aren't aware of yet. "Yesterdays magic is truly todays science" I truly believe that nothing is impossible it's just the question will be figure it out before or after we destroy ourselves?And of course all science is a two edged sword. What will invisibility technology be used for? nature study at close quarters?This is good! More likely it will be used in war to kill more people.Beam me up Scottie may not be far away,I understand they can already do that over short distances with very small objects.
No pine nuts...learn something new every day, I guess I won't be using that argument anymore lol. But I think you're making a big assumption about this quote. Let me ask you this. Do you think you personally(being someone with good knowledge of the outdoors and the pines in general) could make your way through the pines either south to north or vis versa on foot 10 times without out being spotted by anyone(assuming you were trying to avoid being spotted)? And I mean if you gave it an honest effort.....like lets say there was 1 million$ waiting for you if you did it without being spotted. Do you think you could do it?
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