Sunrise at 1/4 Mile Road

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Pines Lover

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Aug 15, 2010
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prior to 2006, the ranger services allowed jeep jamboree to use approved established state roads near and through the 1/4 mile area. after that, the area was ruled to envirormentally sensitive, therefor off limts. The actual you tube videos are not from 1/4 mile. If they are, they are false, not from the actual jeep jamboree. The jamboree only used approved ,established roads. Yes these roads were wet, for its was May and the cranberry farmers had just emptied their bogs and it is hard rain season. the jamboree is "not" there to tear up the land, it is 100% opposite. The objective of the jeep jamboree is to give jeep owners the opportunity to actually use their 4wd on approved, established state roads, tread lightly[stay on the trail, do not litter, clean up trash, respect the environment], enjoy mother nature ats is finest. the jamboree does "not" promote tearing up the land in any way. Im sure jeep jamboree is aware of the negative publicity it is receiving and will promote tread lighty harder than ever before. I will be sure to let them know.


But the videos look to be from 1/4 mile road at the scar.

These are not approved established roads, they are illegal roads created in the stream bed of a NJDEP designated wetlands in an area designated by New Jersey Natural Heritage program as a Prioroty Site because of the rare plants and animals.

"the jamboree does"not" promote tearing up the land in any way"
Come now look at the videos, just what are these guys doing?


The below are Labeled 2008 Jeep Jamboree

at 2:26 he is riding in the vegetation

at 3:44 he is riding in the vegetation

at 3:31 he is riding in the vegetation

at :11 he is riding in the vegetation

at 4:30 he is riding in the vegetation
at 4:46 you see the Jeep Jamboree Trail guide sign on the fender

http://rides.webshots.com/album/572021657MVjEkU
Here's another set labeled Jamboree 2009 May 12th
These are from the scar

This isn't driving on approved trails this is driving through flooded wetlands.

And they are tearing up the land, wetlands in fact.

And here's one of the litany of laws being broken
N.J.A.C. 7:7A-2.1(a), 2.2(a) and (b), 2.5(f), 2.6(a)
Conducting regulated or prohibited activities in a freshwater wetland, transition area and/or State open water without prior Department approval.



I resent people destroying the environmental resources that my tax dollars pay for.
 

ZZ3GMC

Scout
Sep 19, 2003
88
1
Pemberton
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I watched some of the above posted videos from the jamboree and I expected to see a bunch of guys spinning tires and digging the holes deeper. I did see some vegetation being run over on the edge of the water crossing but I didnt see them drive through virgin areas. For the most part they all went through the water holes very easily, not on the gas and tearing it up. If they went through the edge I know it was because they didnt want to get stuck in the deeper hole in the middle, which would dig it deeper. In one video that I watched a jeep got stuck and it was pulled out very gently w/o wild spinning and digging. You can even here the guys in the video telling the drivers to ease into the water. The Jeep Jamboree guys looked like responsible 4 wheelers to me and are not the culprits. Ive run into groups of trucks, jeeps, suvs in the woods driving through puddles in 2wd and tearing them up, these are the people to focus on. It pissed me off seeing that! Im not a 4 wheeler myself, I explore the pines on my dualsport bike or occasionally in my fullsize 2wd van, being very carefull to avoid any water. A hole by Lake Oswego cost me a new transmission a few years back, it was ok the week prior but someone dug it out by the following week and was alot deeper! My van framed out on the trailer hitch with the rear wheels dangling in the hole!
 

russ

New Member
Aug 23, 2010
11
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We need to close 1/4 mile, but I agree with Dave, not before we get some assurance that we can control the people who are using it. If the state won't do something, then we need to get organized and do it ourselves.
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
0
I watched some of the above posted videos from the jamboree and I expected to see a bunch of guys spinning tires and digging the holes deeper. I did see some vegetation being run over on the edge of the water crossing but I didnt see them drive through virgin areas. For the most part they all went through the water holes very easily, not on the gas and tearing it up. If they went through the edge I know it was because they didnt want to get stuck in the deeper hole in the middle, which would dig it deeper. In one video that I watched a jeep got stuck and it was pulled out very gently w/o wild spinning and digging. You can even here the guys in the video telling the drivers to ease into the water. The Jeep Jamboree guys looked like responsible 4 wheelers to me and are not the culprits. Ive run into groups of trucks, jeeps, suvs in the woods driving through puddles in 2wd and tearing them up, these are the people to focus on. It pissed me off seeing that! Im not a 4 wheeler myself, I explore the pines on my dualsport bike or occasionally in my fullsize 2wd van, being very carefull to avoid any water. A hole by Lake Oswego cost me a new transmission a few years back, it was ok the week prior but someone dug it out by the following week and was alot deeper! My van framed out on the trailer hitch with the rear wheels dangling in the hole!


? So the vegetation getting run over along the road wasn't virgin?

Why do you think the road at 1/4 mile are 100 feet wide?

http://rides.webshots.com/video/3046046050043780184vsaMHI
http://rides.webshots.com/video/3024295700043780184bmojIs
Show stuck jeep spinning its tire and making holes deeper

http://rides.webshots.com/video/3097401970043780184fIJTIk
this isn't a road its a flooded wetlands

http://rides.webshots.com/video/3046046050043780184vsaMHI
Drives right through the vegetation

They are driving in the scar which is a wetlands, NJDEP Natural Heritage Priority site with rare animals and globally rare plants and wiping them out.

And making money taking people there to violate NJ wetlands laws.
 

russ

New Member
Aug 23, 2010
11
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They are driving in the scar which is a wetlands, NJDEP Natural Heritage Priority site with rare animals and globally rare plants and wiping them out.

And making money taking people there to violate NJ wetlands laws.

Mike, do you know what the route is for the upcoming Jamboree? Does it include the 1/4 mile area?
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
Not that the amount of damage would be as severe as driving through, but when a hiker walks on endangered plants or an equestrian lets their 1500 lb animal walk on them isn't that damage as well? Also, the word closure was mentioned again, IMHO when closure starts it will not stop at one area, also closure will not be segregated to just one group, keep that in mind.
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,894
1,037
Not that the amount of damage would be as severe as driving through, but when a hiker walks on endangered plants or an equestrian lets their 1500 lb animal walk on them isn't that damage as well? Also, the word closure was mentioned again, IMHO when closure starts it will not stop at one area, also closure will not be segregated to just one group, keep that in mind.

Let's not leave out the dirt bikes, they rarely stay on the roads for any length of time.
 

russ

New Member
Aug 23, 2010
11
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Not that the amount of damage would be as severe as driving through, but when a hiker walks on endangered plants or an equestrian lets their 1500 lb animal walk on them isn't that damage as well? Also, the word closure was mentioned again, IMHO when closure starts it will not stop at one area, also closure will not be segregated to just one group, keep that in mind.

Joe, the distinction here is that, yes, hikers and horses might damage a rare plant now and then, but the activities at 1/4 mile have destroyed dozens of acres of habitat. It's not a reasonable comparison. As for closure, the state forest authorities aren't anxious to close anything. They are committed to keeping the forest open. I don't see any reason to think that denying access to 1/4 mile and other select places that have been trashed is going to somehow lead to a general closing of large portions of the forest. On the other hand, if the state simply can't police this public property, and it continues to be a kind of no-man's-land, a safe haven for criminals, then maybe the whole thing ought to be shut down. And if that happens, then we all have to be sure and thank the yahoos who are getting their fun at our expense.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,144
Coastal NJ
Joe, the distinction here is that, yes, hikers and horses might damage a rare plant now and then, but the activities at 1/4 mile have destroyed dozens of acres of habitat. It's not a reasonable comparison. As for closure, the state forest authorities aren't anxious to close anything. They are committed to keeping the forest open. I don't see any reason to think that denying access to 1/4 mile and other select places that have been trashed is going to somehow lead to a general closing of large portions of the forest. On the other hand, if the state simply can't police this public property, and it continues to be a kind of no-man's-land, a safe haven for criminals, then maybe the whole thing ought to be shut down. And if that happens, then we all have to be sure and thank the yahoos who are getting their fun at our expense.

Interesting, but if the state cannot police the area now, what makes anyone think they can close it and enforce that? Those that do not abide by the current regs/laws, certainly are not going to let a 'Closed' sign stop them. The only thing that would change would be keeping law abiding folks out.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
In refernce to the hikers and horses, as I said the damage is on a smaller scale, did you read? Damage is damage no matter if it is a 1/4 inch or 1/4 mile. Closure of the area is possible, wait and see if we all keep going this direction.
 

popeofthepines

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
206
73
Atco
I have seen this post drag on and with no real resolution other than report activities you see that are illegal to those that need to know, stay away from ¼ mile if you are going out there to party or drive around like an idiot or inconsiderate person and I learned what laws people are breaking. Frankly, I have driven the pines for 15 years, without much incident. I have wheeled in the daytime and night time, drive on established roadways and am not back there doing donuts, running over animals, vegetation or historical artifacts. I do this because I respect what I would like to keep using and in this case that would be the Pine Barrens and the history and biological importance it has to the world. Yes I know it is a biosphere that is known throughout the world for its diverse and one of a kind species and am glad that I am able to be out there and enjoy it. I also know of a great amount of history that is also imbedded in the Pines and enjoy being able to see it and wonder what it looked like back in the day. For all the talk about preserving a specific species or fauna, were you around to fight for the timber rattlers that were displaced when they built homes on Hopewell years ago? Have you objected to the continue allowance of increased building on the Pine Barrens? Some people may say that those permanent scars could have been avoided with an education to the builders and not just the environmental impact studies. And I am sure that those timber rattlers would have appreciated a voice as pineslover wants to be a voice of the amphibians and fauna in the ¼ mile area. Not many people listened to the voices for those timber rattlers because those houses are there. Not many things can live in oil/water mixture so pointing out the obvious is not helping make a point IMHO. Snakes move and so do amphibians, if they can survive the paved roads that are now in their way or in this case the deep puddles filled with oil and water.
If we close that area off, it will just move to another location and then the tree hugging will start for that spot and snowball into a complete closure of the pines to vehicles. An eco-terrorism is not an alternative because two wrongs things do not make a right. There is a dichotomy in the people who use the pines; those who hike it, those who ride horses and those who drive through it with vehicles and the reason each person is out there. People on horses do not like noisy trucks who scare the horses and I understand that completely but I respect the horse riders and stop or slow to a crawl. So if we close the Pine Barrens to vehicles, what happens to those businesses like Bel Haven, Adam’s and Nick’s canoe places, who can no longer travel those roads to get canoes in and out of the rivers? What about the people who make money from the deer meat they obtain in the Pine Barrens by driving to their hunting spots? How about people who do research projects and driving out there? Or how about the money made from allowing people to drive into the campsites each weekend? Or lastly, the photographer who wants to see a specific fauna, animal, habitat or historical site? These could all be long standing repercussions to us not working together on this because truly the state doesn’t have the money and they may just do the catchall approach and say ‘You can’t play nice, we will just take it from you!’
I think we can all work on a solution to the problem. Maybe it is a beach buggy style license/permit to drive in that area with a required education course describing the area foliage, inhabitants and established and permitted trails. Also outlined would be the repercussions of not following those rules and an outline of fines and penalties for driving out there without the permits. It would be a nice cash cow for the state to cover the cost of patrolling that area as well as money to recondition the environment. This permit could be like a camping permit and tracked using that so the park police would know how many permits have been issued for that day or week.
Years ago when I was in the rookie years of wheeling, we came upon a truck stuck in the larger area off of Hampton Road on the right if headed towards Hampton Furnace before the bridge. There was a ranger onsite and he asked the gentleman ‘Does that looked like an established roadway?’. And that is the basis of how I have driven through the pines, drive on established roadways. I had heard of ¼ mile for years but never found it, or so I thought until about 5 years or so ago when I found it and realized I had known all along but just didn't know the area name. Then I realized it was a very water logged area and I was not going to risk my vehicle to unseen hazards. But to a person who doesn’t know or care about their vehicle, the environment or what an established roadway is defined as, they may not care about any massive disrespect to an area. Have I been at quarter, yes, do I abuse and disrespect it no!
And that’s my thoughts on this subject
 

ecampbell

Piney
Jan 2, 2003
2,894
1,037
Interesting, but if the state cannot police the area now, what makes anyone think they can close it and enforce that? Those that do not abide by the current regs/laws, certainly are not going to let a 'Closed' sign stop them. The only thing that would change would be keeping law abiding folks out.

Remember when the Carranza Memorial was spray painted? The response was to post a sign " AREA CLOSED FROM DUSK TILL DAWN", like that's going to stop the people who would do such a thing! It only hurt us who liked to park there for moon light hikes.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
8,837
2,144
Coastal NJ
Remember when the Carranza Memorial was spray painted? The response was to post a sign " AREA CLOSED FROM DUSK TILL DAWN", like that's going to stop the people who would do such a thing! It only hurt us who liked to park there for moon light hikes.

Yep, and as one example, one only need look to the Harrisville ruins to see how effective even a signed, fenced, closed area is.
 

popeofthepines

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
206
73
Atco
Remember when the Carranza Memorial was spray painted? The response was to post a sign " AREA CLOSED FROM DUSK TILL DAWN", like that's going to stop the people who would do such a thing! It only hurt us who liked to park there for moon light hikes.

Exactly my point, you can drive past a sign. There are signs for Parker Preserve that are on the trees but nothing is really stopping you from driving through there other than fear.
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
0
Its interesting that the DIV of Fish and Game is much more effective in blocking roads and their conservation officers more aggressive in dealing with these issues in the State Wildlife Management Areas. I am familiar with many of them and know they arrest and issue citations all of the time.
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
0
In refernce to the hikers and horses, as I said the damage is on a smaller scale, did you read? Damage is damage no matter if it is a 1/4 inch or 1/4 mile. Closure of the area is possible, wait and see if we all keep going this direction.

The horses and hikes have not damages many acres in a Natural Heritage Priority site filled with rare plants and animals.

There is no comparison of the damage between the two, they haven't destroyed vernal pools or grounds acres of wetlands vegetation into mud

Your comparing Apples to Clydesdales
 

Pines Lover

Explorer
Aug 15, 2010
186
0
Not that the amount of damage would be as severe as driving through, but when a hiker walks on endangered plants or an equestrian lets their 1500 lb animal walk on them isn't that damage as well? Also, the word closure was mentioned again, IMHO when closure starts it will not stop at one area, also closure will not be segregated to just one group, keep that in mind.

The horse riders have state approved endurance events in Wharton all the time and have not caused any problems.

Hikers and horses do not grind wetlands into mud.
 

russ

New Member
Aug 23, 2010
11
0
Interesting, but if the state cannot police the area now, what makes anyone think they can close it and enforce that? Those that do not abide by the current regs/laws, certainly are not going to let a 'Closed' sign stop them. The only thing that would change would be keeping law abiding folks out.

I did consider that. It would be problematic, and this is purely speculative, but if it ever came to that, I suppose a general closure of the state forest would require that people be allowed only on major thoroughfares for the sole purpose of passing through. Anyone found doing otherwise would be subject to prosecution. Right now, resources are scattered due to all the various permissible activities, so law enforcement is threadbare. With a closure, they would be free to focus on whether anyone is violating the general closure.

Anyway, I certainly don't want that to happen, and I don't think it ever would, unless things keep getting worse. I'm just making the point that the outlaws are putting our opportunities at risk in more ways than one.
 
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