Sunrise at 1/4 Mile Road

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Broke Jeep Joe

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Mar 8, 2006
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Waterford Twp
The horses and hikes have not damages many acres in a Natural Heritage Priority site filled with rare plants and animals.

There is no comparison of the damage between the two, they haven't destroyed vernal pools or grounds acres of wetlands vegetation into mud

Your comparing Apples to Clydesdales

Again, I said not that the damage is as severe as driving, but damage is damage for your selective reading problem. If you think for one second that the equestrains are more responsible than the 4x4 crowd, think again. I ran into a woman, or should I say she and her horse ran into me on Devious Mount Road after dark one night. She was very intoxicated, lost and breaking the law. In another instance, a friend and I were sitting in his jeep in the middle of the road awaiting the riders to pass us by when one kicked the mirror from the side of his jeep. Don't tell me how responsible they are. Granted, that was 2 out of many. Most of the equestrian folks are great. I will not do what some on this site do and lump one group into one barrel, as I said I'll take them at face value. There are jackasses in every crowd.
 

Teegate

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The state actually did close all of Wharton and all other state land in the 70s during a dry spell. Quaker Bridge Road and the other main roads were blocked; however, Wharton is so huge anyone could get access to the woods by using any of the other roads. It really did not work, and it never will work, so there is no use in them even trying.

Guy
 

Trailhead00

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Mar 9, 2005
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If they did close all of Wharton what would the park police do? They would have fewer jobs or even no jobs. I would imagine they have a union and it would never happen. They want the state forests open just as much as we do.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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Mar 8, 2006
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Waterford Twp
The state actually did close all of Wharton and all other state land in the 70s during a dry spell. Quaker Bridge Road and the other main roads were blocked; however, Wharton is so huge anyone could get access to the woods by using any of the other roads. It really did not work, and it never will work, so there is no use in them even trying.

Guy

Guy,

Do you have any pics? That may be a cool then and now?
 

Boyd

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Ben's Branch, Stephen Creek
If they did close all of Wharton what would the park police do? They would have fewer jobs or even no jobs. I would imagine they have a union and it would never happen. They want the state forests open just as much as we do.

We all know how desperate the state is for money. I would say that a more likely outcome would be hiring MORE park police and giving out LOTS of tickets for everything (better be sure your seat belt is fastened, that you don't have a tail light out, that your kid is in a car seat, that you aren't talking on your cell phone, that you aren't speeding, etc.) let alone that you aren't driving through a restricted area.

This is how all the "feel good" laws end up. They start with some noble cause - like saving lives through seat belt use - and end up as cash cows for the state and localities. No doubt that's how they will respond to calls for protecting sensitive areas.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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Mar 8, 2006
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We all know how desperate the state is for money. I would say that a more likely outcome would be hiring MORE park police and giving out LOTS of tickets for everything (better be sure your seat belt is fastened, that you don't have a tail light out, that your kid is in a car seat, that you aren't talking on your cell phone, that you aren't speeding, etc.) let alone that you aren't driving through a restricted area.

This is how all the "feel good" laws end up. They start with some noble cause - like saving lives through seat belt use - and end up as cash cows for the state and localities. No doubt that's how they will respond to calls for protecting sensitive areas.

This is exactly the direction this is heading, not sure about the hiring though. Couldn't have said it better myself.
 

popeofthepines

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Mar 8, 2006
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Atco
We all know how desperate the state is for money. I would say that a more likely outcome would be hiring MORE park police and giving out LOTS of tickets for everything (better be sure your seat belt is fastened, that you don't have a tail light out, that your kid is in a car seat, that you aren't talking on your cell phone, that you aren't speeding, etc.) let alone that you aren't driving through a restricted area.

This is how all the "feel good" laws end up. They start with some noble cause - like saving lives through seat belt use - and end up as cash cows for the state and localities. No doubt that's how they will respond to calls for protecting sensitive areas.

I know my idea has potential for being a cash cow and thus why I proposed it. Have to think like the state and what's in it for them. And if they close it all down something else like global warming may do that whole area in because it is too dry for the amphibians
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
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Coastal NJ
Here's another easily implented source of control and funding. The mobile sportfishing permit for driving on the beach at IBSP is $195/yr, which is about 53 cents a day, Corsons Inlet is $50/yr; they sell thousands and it goes into the general fund, and the Wharton super is very familiar with the higher priced permit. Such a system for driving off pavement on state land could get them millions from permit sales and violations. I wouldn't mind seeing this if the fee's went back into the park/forest they were collected in and into more enforcement.
 

Boyd

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Yeah that would be great. I think they would just require a permit to drive anywhere on an unpaved road on state land. Checkpoint at Washington pulling everybody over: "may I see your permit sir?"
 

Broke Jeep Joe

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Mar 8, 2006
781
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Waterford Twp
Here's another easily implented source of control and funding. The mobile sportfishing permit for driving on the beach at IBSP is $195/yr, which is about 53 cents a day, Corsons Inlet is $50/yr; they sell thousands and it goes into the general fund, and the Wharton super is very familiar with the higher priced permit. Such a system for driving off pavement on state land could get them millions from permit sales and violations. I wouldn't mind seeing this if the fee's went back into the park/forest they were collected in and into more enforcement.

I would also not mind seeing this, but if this were to happen we would need to go with Dave's idea on an established non-mistakable and not open to interpretation trail system with buy in and agreement on both sides. (read as never happen but an awesome idea)
 

Teegate

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I don't want to buy any permit to drive anywhere. They need to keep things the way they are concerning that. Only the legal users will buy one, and Wharton and the other state lands are too large to enforce it.

Guy
 

popeofthepines

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
206
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Atco
Here's another easily implented source of control and funding. The mobile sportfishing permit for driving on the beach at IBSP is $195/yr, which is about 53 cents a day, Corsons Inlet is $50/yr; they sell thousands and it goes into the general fund, and the Wharton super is very familiar with the higher priced permit. Such a system for driving off pavement on state land could get them millions from permit sales and violations. I wouldn't mind seeing this if the fee's went back into the park/forest they were collected in and into more enforcement.

This sounds like a great idea. I would definitely go for a plan like this.
 

46er

Piney
Mar 24, 2004
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Coastal NJ
...... and Wharton and the other state lands are too large to enforce it.

Guy

Just a wild idea to show that really nothing is enforceable, but I wouldn't mind such a permit if it were.

It will be interesting to see what kind of solution is actually proposed, if any.
 

Broke Jeep Joe

Explorer
Mar 8, 2006
781
476
Waterford Twp
I don't want to buy any permit to drive anywhere. They need to keep things the way they are concerning that. Only the legal users will buy one, and Wharton and the other state lands are too large to enforce it.

Guy

It's not as bad as it sounds and is very enforceable. I have one for Brigantine Beach. I completely understand where you are coming from with the purchase, we pay enough in this state to drive on paved roads!
 
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