Sunrise at 1/4 Mile Road
- Thread starter Teegate
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The Dredge Spoils near the Commodore Barry are where I was looking at 3 years ago. the guy who owns it would not contact us back. we had local authorities on our side and everything. I even contacted Russ Juleg and had him on my side. The property is up for sale and we were looking to lease off him but he never contacted us back. If you expect us to come up with money to buy 2200 acres youre smoking crack. You can say"why don't everyone pitch in?" My question back. Is have you ever heard of something that is owned by hundreds of people succeed? I personally love that area it has the best mud in Jersey.
They are recommending that NJDEP buy it
Also
You can seem to fathom that driving in mud in most areas is driving in and destroying wetlands and its illegal.
Whether on public or private property
ok then where would you like to have it happen? I CAN TELL YOU NOW IT'S NOT STOPPING. Why are they recommending the DEP to buy it?
You can hit me up for spelling as much as you want, I could care less. You don't like the way I spell or type move on to the next post.(that goes for anybody) Where do you find mud in the Pine Barrens? thats easy ride around out there as I do almost ever damn day and you will find plenty of areas that are either A) manmade low areas or places from rain collection. My nickname has been Mudboy since I was 11 for about 18 years now. Yes I got it from my hobby starting back then with dunebuggys in Chatsworth pit, (a manmade low area). I still hold the name because I'm into mudracing. I travel the east coast from race to race. So don't act like you know me when you know absolutely nothing about me.
Thats fine Boyd, however it had nothing to do with what you quoted. As long as the threads don't get locked. As heated as myself and others may be getting, this is a debate that has been needed and I think finally may get somewhere. This is the njpinebarrens forum and this is a problem within the pine barrens so I feel it's the proper forum at least.
My, my, you are a sensitive one, aren't you? Tell me, why are you not concerned with spelling?
Here is what NJDEP did in 2002
1. Pursuant to current authority, DEP personnel shall enforce ORV regulations as follows:
� Pursuant to NJSA 13:1L-23, violators shall be assessed the maximum fine of $1000 for
offenses at State Parks and Forests, which may be reduced only where:
a. a first-time violator establishes that no adverse impacts to natural resources or public safety
resulted from the violation; or
b. there are other extraordinary circumstances and a lesser penalty is authorized in writing by
the Assistant Commissioner for Natural and Historic Resources.
� Pursuant to NJSA 23:7-9, DEP shall reasonably assess damage to State property in Wildlife
Management Areas, including damage to natural resources, and shall impose a treble damage
Fine when damages (as measured by the cost of restoration) exceed $100.
� Pursuant to NJAC 23:7-9, all ORV violations in Wildlife Management Areas shall be assessed
the maximum fine of $200.
� The Division of Natural and Historic resources shall develop a damages table that will allow for
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/newsrel/releases/02_0095.htm
Since January 2002, DEP conservation officers and park rangers have issued
more than 1,400 summonses against individuals participating in illegal ORV
activities, resulting in fines of up to $1,000 per violation. A total of 67 vehicles
were impounded over the same time period. As a result of these illegal activities,
approximately 343,000 acres of state park, forest and wilderness land have been
damaged.
In addition to the negative environmental impacts resulting from inappropriate and unlawful use of ORVs, the safety of department personnel has been at risk. Conservation officers and park rangers have been threatened and, in some cases injured, by off-road vehicle users while responding to illegal ORV activities. Increased noise pollution has also resulted, and state expenditures for restoration, maintenance and enforcement have exceeded more than $900,000 annually.
1. Pursuant to current authority, DEP personnel shall enforce ORV regulations as follows:
� Pursuant to NJSA 13:1L-23, violators shall be assessed the maximum fine of $1000 for
offenses at State Parks and Forests, which may be reduced only where:
a. a first-time violator establishes that no adverse impacts to natural resources or public safety
resulted from the violation; or
b. there are other extraordinary circumstances and a lesser penalty is authorized in writing by
the Assistant Commissioner for Natural and Historic Resources.
� Pursuant to NJSA 23:7-9, DEP shall reasonably assess damage to State property in Wildlife
Management Areas, including damage to natural resources, and shall impose a treble damage
Fine when damages (as measured by the cost of restoration) exceed $100.
� Pursuant to NJAC 23:7-9, all ORV violations in Wildlife Management Areas shall be assessed
the maximum fine of $200.
� The Division of Natural and Historic resources shall develop a damages table that will allow for
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/newsrel/releases/02_0095.htm
Since January 2002, DEP conservation officers and park rangers have issued
more than 1,400 summonses against individuals participating in illegal ORV
activities, resulting in fines of up to $1,000 per violation. A total of 67 vehicles
were impounded over the same time period. As a result of these illegal activities,
approximately 343,000 acres of state park, forest and wilderness land have been
damaged.
In addition to the negative environmental impacts resulting from inappropriate and unlawful use of ORVs, the safety of department personnel has been at risk. Conservation officers and park rangers have been threatened and, in some cases injured, by off-road vehicle users while responding to illegal ORV activities. Increased noise pollution has also resulted, and state expenditures for restoration, maintenance and enforcement have exceeded more than $900,000 annually.
Yeah when someone speaks of shit when they obviously know nothing about me. I'm not some 176 year old kid that knows not what he speaks of. I don't care about spelling because I type with 2 fingers and sometimes mistype. As far as proper grammar goes I'm not here to impress anyone esp. someone that has no importance in the conversation. If it makes you or anyone else happier I'll use spellcheck.... lol yeah right. If you have anymore off topic suggestions please PM me, email me, call me or feel free to drop by. If you have any clue of who I am you would know that my number and address have been posted on this site more than once.
This is a thread about ORVS not registered and tagged vehicles. . Not only are my vehicles registered, insured, and inspected, my vehicles don't go "Off-Road", maybe "Off Highway" but never offroad
Am I right or wrong but did you forget part of an important press release?
Commissioner Campbell added that while illegal ORV use is not tolerated, the department supports the safe and proper use of ORVs in designated areas or during specially permitted events.
Acknowledging that proper ORV operation has a recreational value to a growing number of residents in the state, the DEP's new policy also calls for its Office of Natural and Historic Resources to develop appropriate recreational areas for lawful ORV use - while meeting the policy's safety and natural resource protection requirements. Two such facilities will be established and in full operation by 2005.
Now what happened in 2005?????? nothing. What has happened up till now?????? Nothing.
EDIT: I stand mistaken. I forgot about the two different classes of ORVs (I hate that term, should be OHV) i was taking my info from a ordinance that I saw on PPA
Since January 2002, DEP conservation officers and park rangers have issued
more than 1,400 summonses against individuals participating in illegal ORV
activities, resulting in fines of up to $1,000 per violation. A total of 67 vehicles
were impounded over the same time period. As a result of these illegal activities,
approximately 343,000 acres of state park, forest and wilderness land have been
damaged.
In addition to the negative environmental impacts resulting from inappropriate and unlawful use of ORVs, the safety of department personnel has been at risk. Conservation officers and park rangers have been threatened and, in some cases injured, by off-road vehicle users while responding to illegal ORV activities. Increased noise pollution has also resulted, and state expenditures for restoration, maintenance and enforcement have exceeded more than $900,000 annually.[/QUOTE]
ya know it is hard to take some of these statements ....
if the pines are 1.1 million acres then the above statement means one third were damaged in 2002. At that rate everything has been damaged three times since then...
If each of the summonses resulted in the max fine then they collected 1.4 million. 500,000 more than they spent on restoration, maintenance, and enforcement.
Kind of makes you think they may be grandstanding and pushing for more state $$$$
more than 1,400 summonses against individuals participating in illegal ORV
activities, resulting in fines of up to $1,000 per violation. A total of 67 vehicles
were impounded over the same time period. As a result of these illegal activities,
approximately 343,000 acres of state park, forest and wilderness land have been
damaged.
In addition to the negative environmental impacts resulting from inappropriate and unlawful use of ORVs, the safety of department personnel has been at risk. Conservation officers and park rangers have been threatened and, in some cases injured, by off-road vehicle users while responding to illegal ORV activities. Increased noise pollution has also resulted, and state expenditures for restoration, maintenance and enforcement have exceeded more than $900,000 annually.[/QUOTE]
ya know it is hard to take some of these statements ....
if the pines are 1.1 million acres then the above statement means one third were damaged in 2002. At that rate everything has been damaged three times since then...
If each of the summonses resulted in the max fine then they collected 1.4 million. 500,000 more than they spent on restoration, maintenance, and enforcement.
Kind of makes you think they may be grandstanding and pushing for more state $$$$
Well, we know there is a problem, and we know that the authorities know the same things we know, but they still may not always do what needs to be done. That's why I am advocating that we all start turning in actual written complaints, accompanied by photos and video, if possible. I'm assuming that would mean that the offender would have to show up in court to answer for the citation, and the writer of the complaint would, too. But I don't know the actual legal process or possible scenarios, so I was hoping someone out there could give advice.
Just remember that a few posts back it was mentioned that the park police were injured when confronting illegal ORV users. Some of these individuals are not reasonable and should not be confronted, and one must think long and hard about going to court against them. There is nothing wrong with doing this, just think about it before acting and make sure you have proof.
Russ...my comment recently about how reporting these incidents have changed can be explained this way. If for example the CIA, FBI, or local law enforcement had an incident that occurred where they had as much proof that it was happening as we already have on YouTube, this site, and others concerning 1/4 mile, the public would be outraged that they did not follow these websites sites more closely to see what the perpetrators were doing. So there should be no reason for anyone to report these incidents unless it was one that needed instant attention or at some other location. The proof has been available online for years and someone needs to be more attentive to them. I know some state workers are well informed and trying, but for some reason 1/4 mile has slipped through the cracks. All I can say is maybe someone decided that if we let them stay there the rest of the pines would suffer less.
Guy
not sure if you like to hike or kayak or whatever it is you do , what if you had a confined space to do what you like and had to hike the same trail time and time again , sounds pretty boring heh ???? what about when the state does control fire burns ? that doesnt kill off these rare plants or frogs ???? or what more damage is a 4x4 truck doing more then is already been done , back in the 1800's they used to log back there and im pretty sure that destroyed alot of the natual eco system , along with all the machinery in and out of there , the 4x4 guys either just trail ride or they go to a specific spot in this case 1/4 mile , they dont go tearing up every peice of land they see untouched , and really its never gonna stop and the only way to stop it is to shut down the entire wharton state forrest to everyone , even hikers and then all you people complaining about every little detail will end up ruining it for yourselves , people deffinately need to come to compromise
Dave,
I have no idea who is doing this sort of thing, and I have never witnessed anyone doing it. So you have to get it out of your head that I know everything. I only know a few people who post on the Scar blog and have only met the originator of it once. I doubt he would tell me if he was doing this which I am positive he is not. Other than that I know manumuskin (the other Al) and I know who Pines Lover is and have been near him but have never actually talked to him, and I can also tell you he is not doing this sort of thing.
Let me give you a little advice if you don't mind. Years ago I would post on almost every thread and give my opinion on everything. I now find that after typing a post I read it over and debate in my head it's merits. More often than not I delete it and don't post. I have less headaches, less tension, and less members mad at me.
Guy
Yeah, there is no reason to confront them at the scene of the crime. I'm just recommending getting the photos and writing up the detail and submitting that to the authorities. The confrontation would then be at the courthouse in front of plenty of witnesses. As for the YouTube footage, there are probably some opportunities for authorities there, but a lot of what I have seen is just people driving though a flooded portion of a road--which is not a violation. YouTube footage would only be helpful if it (1) clearly showed people driving off the road, (2) clearly identified the offender (or offender's vehicle), and (3) clearly indicated the location. Thus the need for citizen action. If law enforcement people and citizens would step up their vigilance and determination, the cracks would be fewer and smaller. It may very well be that someone made a deliberate choice to let things go at 1/4 mile. If so, it was a very bad choice. There's no remedy in condoning bad behavior. It just encourages more bad behavior. Video, photos, and cell phones. We are not helpless.
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