Tar Kiln Locations?

[pinelandpaddler]

Detecting historic tar kilns and tar production sites using high-resolution, aerial LiDAR-derived digital elevation models: Introducing the Tar Kiln Feature Detection workflow (TKFD) using open-access R and FIJI software

Significant declines in longleaf pine ecosystems during the last 150 years have motivated research and conservation programs focused on their restoration to perceived historical reference conditions. However, the ecological impacts of the historical

www.academia.edu

 

[66C10]

Being that there are lots of these holes in the woods of my stomping grounds myself,family and friends have passed by dozens of these holes hundreds and hundreds of times throughout the years (and generations) and may have come up in conversation a time or 2 with our conclusions always being that these holes were test spots for prospective sand mining operations which is not the case. The info on this site is very impressive I must thank everyone for their input and knowledge that you share.

 

[manumuskin]

Ben have made a gpx file of more then 200 of these kilns.I have been to maybe forty of them.You can see them on the lidar images which is where we first noticed them.The first ones i went out and found are between Menantico creek and an old rd that heads toward Tavern Rock but runs into the power line.I have dug into the bottom of them and you get about a ft of charcoal immediately below the humus level and then you hit clay about a ft thick.I have found several different color clays in the bottom of different kilns.They almost always are near swamps and often on the hills sloping down to a swamp.We think that made it easier to drain the tar.The smaller holes to the side of many are the barrel holes where it was collected.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Being that there are lots of these holes in the woods of my stomping grounds myself,family and friends have passed by dozens of these holes hundreds and hundreds of times throughout the years (and generations) and may have come up in conversation a time or 2 with our conclusions always being that these holes were test spots for prospective sand mining operations which is not the case. The info on this site is very impressive I must thank everyone for their input and knowledge that you share.

There might be some confusion here. Charcoal "pits" and tar kilns were not depression but mounds.

 

[66C10]

Ben have made a gpx file of more then 200 of these kilns.I have been to maybe forty of them.You can see them on the lidar images which is where we first noticed them.The first ones i went out and found are between Menantico creek and an old rd that heads toward Tavern Rock but runs into the power line.I have dug into the bottom of them and you get about a ft of charcoal immediately below the humus level and then you hit clay about a ft thick.I have found several different color clays in the bottom of different kilns.They almost always are near swamps and often on the hills sloping down to a swamp.We think that made it easier to drain the tar.The smaller holes to the side of many are the barrel holes where it was collected.

They seem so sparsely placed for instance if the slope of a hill would be an ideal spot I would think there are enough dead pines to make a bunch near each other rather than so far apart? Or is it that you received so much product from one kiln that it’s not necessary to make multiple in one area for convenience because they wouldn’t make another kiln for a period of time. I just find it interesting for example that there is one kiln with none surrounding in a large area of woods.

 

[66C10]

There might be some confusion here. Charcoal "pits" and tar kilns were not depression but mounds.

I was under the impression that they were depressions in the ground accompanied by a mound next to it…or is it that they dug the mound and utilized it to make the kiln and the depression was nothing more then where they got the soil to make a mound for the kiln? I may need to do more research/watch a video of one in action. Regardless I have been able to make them out in the LIDAR maps characterized by the spot where the “catch drum” or barrel? would be.

 

[manumuskin]

They seem so sparsely placed for instance if the slope of a hill would be an ideal spot I would think there are enough dead pines to make a bunch near each other rather than so far apart? Or is it that you received so much product from one kiln that it’s not necessary to make multiple in one area for convenience because they wouldn’t make another kiln for a period of time. I just find it interesting for example that there is one kiln with none surrounding in a large area of woods.

You are right ,most kilns are alone but I know one area where five are clustered close together and sevaral spots where two or three within sight of each other. I don't know if they would use the same spot repeatedly but why not? You already have your clay layer down and barrel hole dug.I would assume that if it was just one or two people making the kiln and cutting dead pines htey may reuse the same spot long as they're withing range but if there is a whole crew working they would make multiple kilns in the same area and get more done faster that way/?

 

[manumuskin]

I was under the impression that they were depressions in the ground accompanied by a mound next to it…or is it that they dug the mound and utilized it to make the kiln and the depression was nothing more then where they got the soil to make a mound for the kiln? I may need to do more research/watch a video of one in action. Regardless I have been able to make them out in the LIDAR maps characterized by the spot where the “catch drum” or barrel? would be.

Charcoal mounds are just that,Mounds of charcoal where the trees were burnt to make charcoal and they left a little bit at bottom so as not to get dirt in it ut a kiln is a shallow pit dug just deep enough to get enough dirt to line the bottom of the pile to keep drafts out of the pile because it has to burn slow and they need enough of a depression to line it with clay but when the kiln is done there really isn't much of a depression left but it appears to be because of the encircling ring of dirt around the kiln which where the sand was taken out is now replaced with clay,and charcoal remains.On LIDAR they appear to be Doughnuts laying on the ground with sometimes the barrel hole beside them even visible. So Gabe is right Charcoal mounds are mounds and tar kilns aren't really pits though they can appear to be because of the encircling mound.

 

[66C10]

Charcoal mounds are just that,Mounds of charcoal where the trees were burnt to make charcoal and they left a little bit at bottom so as not to get dirt in it ut a kiln is a shallow pit dug just deep enough to get enough dirt to line the bottom of the pile to keep drafts out of the pile because it has to burn slow and they need enough of a depression to line it with clay but when the kiln is done there really isn't much of a depression left but it appears to be because of the encircling ring of dirt around the kiln which where the sand was taken out is now replaced with clay,and charcoal remains.On LIDAR they appear to be Doughnuts laying on the ground with sometimes the barrel hole beside them even visible. So Gabe is right Charcoal mounds are mounds and tar kilns aren't really pits though they can appear to be because of the encircling mound.

That makes sense the encircling mound makes it look like a hole especially on LIDAR with the one “ditch” through a part of the donut(unsure of the correct terminology). I am mainly thinking of the ones in the woods behind my brother’s on Leamings mill rd (behind old vfw) there is multiple in a close proximity I think 4 of them these may be the ones you are referring to where they are close to each other?

 

[66C10]

These are the ones behind my brothers. Also side note the depression to the left by itself is a cellar hole I found as a kid with logs as cellar walls but obviously very narrow maybe 5x5. I never knew what it was. Always assumed it was a fort that some kids made years ago but would have taken a whole lot of work to build

 

[pinelandpaddler]

View attachment 20561
These are the ones behind my brothers. Also side note the depression to the left by itself is a cellar hole I found as a kid with logs as cellar walls but obviously very narrow maybe 5x5. I never knew what it was. Always assumed it was a fort that some kids made years ago but would have taken a whole lot of work to build

That's a motherload of kilns!

 

[manumuskin]

That makes sense the encircling mound makes it look like a hole especially on LIDAR with the one “ditch” through a part of the donut(unsure of the correct terminology). I am mainly thinking of the ones in the woods behind my brother’s on Leamings mill rd (behind old vfw) there is multiple in a close proximity I think 4 of them these may be the ones you are referring to where they are close to each other?

I know about the four there but there are five in a group in the woods west of Union lake.Three real close together and two more about fifty yards away.One of those is the nicest I have yet seen and no where near a swamp.
The ditch you see running through the circle and into the barrel hole is where the pipe was(or often two half sections of logs hollowed out and put back together)Once the log rots away the sand it was covered with caves in and leaves the ditch.Very observant you are.There are a few nice videos on youtube demostrating a working tar kiln in North Carolina.It's a display at a park but I forget where.NJ was tarring before NC because it was settled earlier but once they discovered the better producing pines of the carolinas NJ I think kinda lost interest in tar making.Same thing happened to our iron industry when they found better sources in Pa.

 

[manumuskin]

View attachment 20561
These are the ones behind my brothers. Also side note the depression to the left by itself is a cellar hole I found as a kid with logs as cellar walls but obviously very narrow maybe 5x5. I never knew what it was. Always assumed it was a fort that some kids made years ago but would have taken a whole lot of work to build

That is the cellar hole to Claudie Finches old cabin! Thanks.I tried recently to find it again after maybe twenty years and could not.You just relocated it for me.He built a very nice cabin there in the 80's then let a friend of his tear it down for the logs.I was pissed.It was a very nice cabin.

 

[manumuskin]

View attachment 20561
These are the ones behind my brothers. Also side note the depression to the left by itself is a cellar hole I found as a kid with logs as cellar walls but obviously very narrow maybe 5x5. I never knew what it was. Always assumed it was a fort that some kids made years ago but would have taken a whole lot of work to build

I never thought to check LIDAR for the hole!

 

[manumuskin]

I don't know how to link to Boyds Maps anymore but here is a screenshot with the coords on it

 

[66C10]

That is the cellar hole to Claudie Finches old cabin! Thanks.I tried recently to find it again after maybe twenty years and could not.You just relocated it for me.He built a very nice cabin there in the 80's then let a friend of his tear it down for the logs.I was pissed.It was a very nice cabin.

It’s pretty close to houses I wouldn’t have thought Claude would have made one there although the woods was probably way less inhabited as it is back there now there’s tons of enduro trails cut in back there. I’ll show you where it’s at. It’s behind a guys house that probably knew him cause I know his cousin I think knew him. Lives on Burns Rd

 

[manumuskin]

Hold on I was ass backwards when I said that was Claudies cabin.Thats west of the Kilns.I thought it was east across the swamp.I will have to check that hole out.I have never been there.

 

[66C10]

Hold on I was ass backwards when I said that was Claudies cabin.Thats west of the Kilns.I thought it was east across the swamp.I will have to check that hole out.I have never been there.

It’s west towards burns rd I’ll show you because I’d also like to investigate the kilns out there. We can park at the end of my brothers yard. Claudine’s cabin I heard of with the chicken coop I was told is on the west side but I’m never on that side when we a deer drive so I never found any evidence if he did have a foundation though I bet I could find it

 

[manumuskin]

i just checked LIDAR and the cellar hole is so shallow I cant see it.It should be on west edge of Berrymans Swamp

 

[66C10]

i just checked LIDAR and the cellar hole is so shallow I cant see it.It should be on west edge of Berrymans Swamp

Same thing with the one in P&H it’s so shallow it doesn’t show up I’m very surprised but must be filled in quite a bit. Wasn’t that deep