There was plenty of opposition to NAFTA from the people. Just like there was plenty of opposition from commuters for the toll increases that happened on the turnpike and parkway. Things happen with very little input from the citizenry.
The Economy
- Thread starter Ben Ruset
- Start date
- Status
Did anyone get the email that went around called "the burke bailout"?
The point was that if we took the $700,billon and gave it to the 200 millon working taxpayers in this country it worked out like $345,000 each. That kind of puts it in perspective for me. If $600 per person in Bush's economic stimulus plan is going to stimulate the economy what would that kind of money do?
I would rather see it go to the people then to the fat cats.
The point was that if we took the $700,billon and gave it to the 200 millon working taxpayers in this country it worked out like $345,000 each. That kind of puts it in perspective for me. If $600 per person in Bush's economic stimulus plan is going to stimulate the economy what would that kind of money do?
I would rather see it go to the people then to the fat cats.
Well it's early in the morning, so I apologize if my math is wrong since I don't normally deal with numbers of that magnitude. But:
$345,000 x 200,000,000 = $69,000,000,000,000
Wouldn't that be a 69 TRILLION dollar bailout.
$3,500 x 200,000,000 = $700,000,000,000
No doubt we all feel the issues surrounding our lives. We all need more time in the Pines.
I will be in the East Plains around my mini preserve on Sat-Sun.
If anyone wants to meet and hike the plains area, eat some lunch-dinner, talk about life, take some photos, etc!
We may even get to see a "dust devil" that seems to frequent the area. These mini tornados are fascinating.
(They are comparable to tornadoes in that both are an unusual weather phenomenon of a vertically-oriented rotating column of air. Most tornadoes are associated with a larger parent circulation, the mesocyclone on the back of a supercell thunderstorm. Dust devils form as a swirling updraft under sunny conditions during fair weather, rarely coming close to the intensity of a tornado >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_devil)
Mike
I will be in the East Plains around my mini preserve on Sat-Sun.
If anyone wants to meet and hike the plains area, eat some lunch-dinner, talk about life, take some photos, etc!
We may even get to see a "dust devil" that seems to frequent the area. These mini tornados are fascinating.
(They are comparable to tornadoes in that both are an unusual weather phenomenon of a vertically-oriented rotating column of air. Most tornadoes are associated with a larger parent circulation, the mesocyclone on the back of a supercell thunderstorm. Dust devils form as a swirling updraft under sunny conditions during fair weather, rarely coming close to the intensity of a tornado >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_devil)
Mike
Seems like this belongs in a different thread...
But the ash following last years' fire made these easy to see. Weird!
Well we never saw that kind of high, and today it looks like the market may be ready to test last Friday's low. Currently down almost 300 points to 8290 and the day is young...
Well it's early in the morning, so I apologize if my math is wrong since I don't normally deal with numbers of that magnitude. But:
$345,000 x 200,000,000 = $69,000,000,000,000
Wouldn't that be a 69 TRILLION dollar bailout.
$3,500 x 200,000,000 = $700,000,000,000
you mean to say that something I read on the internet was not correct! Now I have no hope at all..........so whats wrong with 69 trillon, its just paper and ink
Here is an excellent piece from the Washington Post written by Peter Schiff, President of Euro Pacific Capital: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../10/15/AR2008101503166.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
However, the government is not proposing to simply give that money to "fat cats" to spend as they wish. They will get assets in return for it, that over time will probably be worth more than was paid. This same thing happened during the S&L crisis in the 80's. I believe Resolution Trust Corp. ultimately liquidated for more than they invested.
I'll be surprised if any of the assets received by the government will be worth anything. This situation is much worse than the S&L scandal. Instead of buying up assets of failed thrifts here at home, we are going to be buying up worthless paper from around the world - not to mention the nationalization of the banks, which is as American as communism.
This is just another step down Friedrich Hayek's Road to Serfdom.
You and I are not far apart at all in our essential understanding, but I just wanted to point out that it isn't quite a giveaway. Ownership of assets is changing hands. When the S&L crisis was unfolding people said the same thing about those assets. Yes, this is larger, but what it boils down to is this: if it isn't the end of civilization, then eventually those shares in the banks will be worth more than they are now. I can't say anything about some of these derivative products, because I don't know what the hell they would be buying, but I think the equity investments are not a bad way for the government to get wads of capital to these major institutions. It's an investment in the idea that Western capitalism is not dead, and if I had a few billion I would be comfortable riding along with Buffet.
Free market capitalism is already dead. While this may be an investment in the idea, it isn't an investment in capitalism. It is, however, an investment in socialism and collectivism. If we had free market capitalism, the government would be taking a laissez-faire position and allowing the bad debt and mal-investments to be liquidated, as they should.
The institution of the Federal Reserve Bank was the first nail in the coffin of the Free Market and this crisis, in all likelihood, will be the last.
Have you seen Aaron Russo's documentary film - America: Freedom to Fascism? It is a very good film; and, if you are interested, you can watch it on google video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
In case anybody is keeping score, the S&P 500 closed at 897 today, which is its lowest level since April 2003. No end in sight to this mess.... 
Do Not Worry
"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
That is true.
I mean, even if society collapsed, people would figure out how to grow food to survive. It'd be hard - we'd literally be turning the clocks back 200 years - but at the end of the day people who are resourceful enough will survive.
The planet has never seen a societal collapse before. Even when the Roman Empire "fell", to the average person the day after was just the same. It was more of a slow decline into the dark ages.
Even Europe after WW2 wasn't so terrible, and recovered from economic devastation in ~10 years or so.
Will people starve? Yes, maybe. Since most food is grown in the midwest, we'd have grain shortages. But us coastal folk would be consuming more seafood. Farmland would become more valuable, and fortunately NJ has some very good farmland.
I do think that if the economy and the gov't collapses people will step in to "reboot" the system. We have enough gold in vaults to go back to the gold standard should we need. I also have a feeling there's probably some sort of contingency plan in place if the worst happens.
Even Europe after WW2 wasn't so terrible, and recovered from economic devastation in ~10 years or so.
Will people starve? Yes, maybe. Since most food is grown in the midwest, we'd have grain shortages. But us coastal folk would be consuming more seafood. Farmland would become more valuable, and fortunately NJ has some very good farmland.
I do think that if the economy and the gov't collapses people will step in to "reboot" the system. We have enough gold in vaults to go back to the gold standard should we need. I also have a feeling there's probably some sort of contingency plan in place if the worst happens.
Is this some of the plan;
http://www.libertyforlife.com/jail-police/us-concentration_camp-locations.htm
"NEW JERSEY
Ft. Dix / McGuire AFB - Possible deportation point for detainees. Lots of pictures taken of detention compounds and posted on Internet, this camp is well-known. Facility is now complete and ready for occupancy."
http://www.libertyforlife.com/jail-police/us-concentration_camp-locations.htm
"NEW JERSEY
Ft. Dix / McGuire AFB - Possible deportation point for detainees. Lots of pictures taken of detention compounds and posted on Internet, this camp is well-known. Facility is now complete and ready for occupancy."
Do we really have gold in Fort Knox? I believe the last audit was in 2005; and, rather than auditing the actual gold, they audited the mints financial statements. As we are seeing in the financial world today, financial statements don't account for much when it comes to the actual value. Many argue that the last true audit was done in 1954, with all the gold reserves being physically audited.
Another question is: who really owns the gold reserves? I would be surprised if it was the U.S. Government. I think it is more likely that they are owned by either the Federal Reserve Bank or the International Monetary Fund.
If it is still owned by the U.S. and we suffered an economic collapse which resulted in default of the U.S. national debt, then those assets needed to cover the outstanding debt owed to foreign nations (almost $3 trillion) would be siezed by the creditors (http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt)
The Grandfather Economic Report series is a good resource for understanding the National Debt, to whom it is owed and the national security risks it poses to us: http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt.htm
Freerider may be on point with what the contingency plan is.
starvation? the violence would become so severe as soon as hunger sets in that the population will adjust to the new food levels in a very short time. Remember we live in a land where for several generations we have been taught that we are just "evolved animals" and that survival of the fitest is the natural order.
I would worry more about my means of self defence then my food supplies. If things get that bad then what you can't carry at a full run is just excess.
Most of all trust God. God is still in control. In three months these worries will seem foolish and we will all be worried about some other crisis that will amount to nothing.
- Status