The "Nanny State" continues it's rampage on it's citizens

[LongIslandPiney]

Recently I have been suffering with ear congestion and fluid, and my doctor told me to get Sudafed. But thanks to a new addition to the facist Patriot Act, you can no longer buy psudophedrine over the counter. Many drugstores don't carry it at all, and those that do, require a driver license (which I don't have) and signing a logbook, so Uncle Sam can keep track of you.
I'd like to know where was the outrage? It seems the sheeple of America are totally oblivious to yet another outragous example of civil rights violations.
Supposedly, they passed the bill because "people are making meth from it". Lets punish everybody because a few are making Meth. I guess pretty soon they'll be banning gatorade too, after the foiled bomb making attempt. The U.S. government knows no limits to creating more unneccesary rules and restrictions. Heck, you can't even defend yourself anymore (stuff like Mace, Pepper spray,stunguns) are banned in most places in the U.S., and God forbit you want to carry a gun. It's your right under the constitution, but don't tell that to ppl like George W. Bush (the Worst of both liberal and conservative views) and Hillary Clinton.
Meanwhile, if I was in almost any other country, including China, I'd be able to get my medication.
People need to WAKE UP and see how these people in power are destroying America. They don't believe in laws, civil rights, or our constitution. Instead day by day they hammer away at the quality of lifestyle for American citizens, while allowing many other laws to be broken, as long as it suits the corporations and the ultra-rich.
And while I was typing this, 1,000 more illegal aliens snuck in, and millions more are working in our neighborhoods and breeding so they can STEAL our safety net.:jeffd:
Meanwhile my ear is still bothering me, the sudafed pe (which DOES NOT contain pseudophedrine) isn't doing a thing.

 

[Badfish740]

Wow, I never knew it had gotten to that point with psudophedrine. Are you sure that you can't get it at all? It is a fact that psudophedrine is a main component of methamphetamine, but you need large quantities of it to make even a medium sized amount of meth. In know that in the past large purchases (ie: Someone buying 100 boxes of cold medicine in one shot) were automatically flagged, and in some states you were limited to a certain amount per day. The same goes for other components of meth such as toulene and all sorts of other nasty and highly flammable chemicals that go into it. I ran into the toulene issue when I was making high octane fuel for my old Volvo turbo. In Formula One in the early '80s when turbos were still allowed they added huge amounts of toulene to the fuel in order to turn the boost up to insane levels (30-40 psi in some cases) and not destroy the engine through pre-ignition or knocking/pinging. I went to Home Depot and bought 5 gallons and I was handed a form on DEA letterhead to sign. Kinda scary.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand-are you sure that's a federal thing and not a New York state statute? I've never really heard of that provision of the Patriot Act, but I haven't had a cold recently either. That being said, I know meth is becoming more and more of a problem in New Jersey. Up in Phillipsburg in Warren County a lab was recently discovered, and out in "Pennsyltuckey" where my brother goes to school (Lock Haven) he said it seems like some barn/backwoods shack blows up once a week because someone was "cooking." A friend of mine who's a Pemberton cop was telling me that the really sad thing is that Firefighters and Police can't even go into a suspected lab without a full Hazmat suit on because of the nasty byproducts of the process. A lot of times when they go in they'll find that the scumbag cooking the stuff has his kids sleeping or playing in the next room. Even the fumes from cooking will eat aluminum and corrode pretty much anything but stainless steel. And just think-some idiots pay to snort the stuff up their noses...THAT'S what's wrong with America.

 

[Teegate]

We just went to get some for Jessica last week and they put little slips of paper on the shelves and you take it to the counter to buy it. You don't need a prescription just go to the counter and get it. Unfortunately, they were out of it so we did not get it. She is allergic to Acedamephines which make her heart race, so the cold medicine she can take has that drug in it.

Guy

 

[stizkidz]

I dont trust the govt just as much as the next person but... I DO think there is a drug problem in this country and I am glad to see that at least something is being done about it. It's really not THAT big of a deal to show some ID when you need to buy Robotussin. Phone tapping and other stuff like that, now that I DO have a problem with. Illegal aliens, yes this is a major problem. All I am saying is, dont lump limiting over the counter drug sales with the freedoms that have been taken away from us by the Patriot Act.

 

[LongIslandPiney]

Dont you think it's silly that you have to show ID to buy a silly thing like medicine, but anyone can show up without ID AND VOTE?
I refuse to have to give up my privacy just to buy some cold medicine!

 

[stizkidz]

See now, this is where I have a problem. Some people take the whole "not trusting the govt" mindset too far... What privacy, exactly, has been foregone by showing some ID to buy medicine? No harm is being done to you in any way here. Unless you are buying the drugs with malicious intent, you have nothing to fear. When people take beliefs to the extremes and stop using common sense, I have a problem with this mindset. Most extremes are bad; ie: terrorists, religious freaks, adicts, etc. Holding firm beliefs makes you strong in your cause, but taking your beliefs too far will only harm your cause.

 

[LongIslandPiney]

It's not as simple as just showing ID. You have to sign a logbook as well which is looked at by the local PD. You "government can save us" folks often say "if you've got nothing to hide, then what's the problem?". The problem is that slowly by slowly the quality of life for our citizens declines. 10 years ago you could buy Sudafed over the counter. You could take photos of trains. You could board the plane with a drink of gatorade. Cant do any of that anymore. More regulation does not save us. The criminals will get their drugs no matter what. Meanwhile citizens have to go through a whole process getting their cold medicine as "big brother" watches them every step of the way.
When you're sick and you have to wait 15-20 minutes on line at the pharamacy, then dig out your identification instead of being in and out of the store in 5 minutes or less you tell me how much you like it. And remember, most pharmacy hours aren't past 9pm weekdays and 6pm weekends around here, so if you're feeling sick at 10pm you're outta luck. And the other stuff that's being put in place of Sudafed, known as PE, doesn't do a thing.
Again, I refuse to agree to such draconian rules. I still take pictures of trains. And I will still get my Sudafed. I can order it from Canada online, or go into many smaller drugstores such as those in Chinatown, which don't believe in stupid laws.
And I'm sure the meth labs will too. All this law does is prevent citizens from getting their cold meds. In the past 4 years the President and the Congress have stripped right after right for us citizens while looking the other way as illegal aliens come in across the border and work in our neighborhoods. They call themselves conservative and believers in small government, yet the government has grown more than ever under their "reign". Illegals are hired right out in the open and the police do nothing. And did I mention they can just show up and vote in many states?
Yes I am outraged, and there's something wrong with y'all that aren't. Too bad most of the sheeple in this country would rather let people with badges into their everyday lives, I refuse to do that..PERIOD.
If I wanted to live in a communist country like China, then I would have. But I live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. As an AMERICAN, I believe our rights are sarced. I refuse to live in a land of photo bans, ID and bag checks, and fear mongering. Especially while serious laws such as our SOVEIRNTY are being broken everyday by our government and corporations.
"Those That will trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security"

 

[piker56]

Over the years I have worked with many people who emmigrated from the USSR. One of the things about Americans that they find odd is how easily we will give up rights in order to supposedly feel safer. Just food for thought.

 

[bobpbx]

It's not as simple as just showing ID. You have to sign a logbook as well which is looked at by the local PD. You "government can save us" folks often say "if you've got nothing to hide, then what's the problem?". The problem is that slowly by slowly the quality of life for our citizens declines. 10 years ago you could buy Sudafed over the counter. You could take photos of trains. You could board the plane with a drink of gatorade. Cant do any of that anymore. More regulation does not save us. The criminals will get their drugs no matter what. Meanwhile citizens have to go through a whole process getting their cold medicine as "big brother" watches them every step of the way.
When you're sick and you have to wait 15-20 minutes on line at the pharamacy, then dig out your identification instead of being in and out of the store in 5 minutes or less you tell me how much you like it. And remember, most pharmacy hours aren't past 9pm weekdays and 6pm weekends around here, so if you're feeling sick at 10pm you're outta luck. And the other stuff that's being put in place of Sudafed, known as PE, doesn't do a thing.
Again, I refuse to agree to such draconian rules. I still take pictures of trains. And I will still get my Sudafed. I can order it from Canada online, or go into many smaller drugstores such as those in Chinatown, which don't believe in stupid laws.
And I'm sure the meth labs will too. All this law does is prevent citizens from getting their cold meds. In the past 4 years the President and the Congress have stripped right after right for us citizens while looking the other way as illegal aliens come in across the border and work in our neighborhoods. They call themselves conservative and believers in small government, yet the government has grown more than ever under their "reign". Illegals are hired right out in the open and the police do nothing. And did I mention they can just show up and vote in many states?
Yes I am outraged, and there's something wrong with y'all that aren't. Too bad most of the sheeple in this country would rather let people with badges into their everyday lives, I refuse to do that..PERIOD.
If I wanted to live in a communist country like China, then I would have. But I live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. As an AMERICAN, I believe our rights are sarced. I refuse to live in a land of photo bans, ID and bag checks, and fear mongering. Especially while serious laws such as our SOVEIRNTY are being broken everyday by our government and corporations.
"Those That will trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security"

Well said Long Island. Good solid rant. A man whose heart is just like mine. Edmund Burke said...(paraphrased)..."the people will suffer no liberties but under some delusion". In other words, you are an idiot if you give up any freedoms that don't infringe on others rights, and if you do, you were tricked into doing so.

 

[supercilious]

lol

It's not as simple as just showing ID. You have to sign a logbook as well which is looked at by the local PD. You "government can save us" folks often say "if you've got nothing to hide, then what's the problem?". The problem is that slowly by slowly the quality of life for our citizens declines. 10 years ago you could buy Sudafed over the counter. You could take photos of trains. You could board the plane with a drink of gatorade. Cant do any of that anymore. More regulation does not save us. The criminals will get their drugs no matter what. Meanwhile citizens have to go through a whole process getting their cold medicine as "big brother" watches them every step of the way.
When you're sick and you have to wait 15-20 minutes on line at the pharamacy, then dig out your identification instead of being in and out of the store in 5 minutes or less you tell me how much you like it. And remember, most pharmacy hours aren't past 9pm weekdays and 6pm weekends around here, so if you're feeling sick at 10pm you're outta luck. And the other stuff that's being put in place of Sudafed, known as PE, doesn't do a thing.
Again, I refuse to agree to such draconian rules. I still take pictures of trains. And I will still get my Sudafed. I can order it from Canada online, or go into many smaller drugstores such as those in Chinatown, which don't believe in stupid laws.
And I'm sure the meth labs will too. All this law does is prevent citizens from getting their cold meds. In the past 4 years the President and the Congress have stripped right after right for us citizens while looking the other way as illegal aliens come in across the border and work in our neighborhoods. They call themselves conservative and believers in small government, yet the government has grown more than ever under their "reign". Illegals are hired right out in the open and the police do nothing. And did I mention they can just show up and vote in many states?
Yes I am outraged, and there's something wrong with y'all that aren't. Too bad most of the sheeple in this country would rather let people with badges into their everyday lives, I refuse to do that..PERIOD.
If I wanted to live in a communist country like China, then I would have. But I live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. As an AMERICAN, I believe our rights are sarced. I refuse to live in a land of photo bans, ID and bag checks, and fear mongering. Especially while serious laws such as our SOVEIRNTY are being broken everyday by our government and corporations.
"Those That will trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security"

rants are funny, why people love cameras to "make traffic faster", care all you wish, its all a dead issue, when the cops come to your house because they are doing some "know the people" cause, they will know all the drugs you have been subscribed in the past 30 years, know your work history, your income, etc.., its over with, cant get back privacy rights when the ACLU defends pedophiles, regardless of the legal issues to give up fighting for mainstream liberty issues, its a dead issue, its done and over, you are a resource, and what you do is traced and recored, RFID chips in your mac/credit cards, full tracking in your cell phone calls and location of where you go(GPS system? HA, 911 system of records of location based on pinging to towers, fully recorded), black boxes in your cars, its over, it was nice for a time, DEAD ISSUE, it wont be restored

 

[Boyd]

Super, I consider myself quite a cynic but you really raise the bar... If you let this stuff tear you up so much you will become a miserable person. Get out into the pines and relax every now and then

I just finished watching the new Criterion director's cut of Terry Gilliam's Brazil last night, which is one of my favorite movies. It is more topical than ever today as it tackles issues of privacy, terrorism, conformity, the media and the government meddling in our lives. As much as I love that movie, I can't watch it too often because I'm always depressed by the end....

http://imdb.com/title/tt0088846/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0088846/dvd

 

[Badfish740]

I think Boyd's got it right. I for one am more concerned about the fact that the psuedopedrine (or whatever it is) is made overseas instead of here. Democrats (of which I am included) spend too much time crying about civil liberties and too little time calling attention to the fact that NOTHING is manufactured here anymore. It's made in China and sold at Traitor-Mart (ahem) I mean Wal-Mart. I think maybe I could live with a little wiretapping if I knew that the phone I was talking on was made by an American who could feed and clothe his or her family as a result. I got into with some guys on another board (Chevy diesel truck page) about Toyota entering NASCAR. They felt that "the enemy" shouldn't be allowed to race in an American racing body. I disagree. Toyota, unlike most American companies, builds cars here! Granted they are assembled with foreign parts, but that guy can go home after putting together Corollas all day to a decent home, eat a decent meal, play with his kids, and get a good night's sleep knowing he's working hard and putting food on the table. Chevy is busy paying some sleazeball ad execs more money than they'd ever DREAM of paying their workers to come up with commercials loaded with Cowboys and American flags.

In short-I think corporate America would love to see us overly concerned with showing ID to buy cold medicine. It distracts us from seeing that our country's heart and soul is being sold to China by THEM.

 

[supercilious]

I think Boyd's got it right. I for one am more concerned about the fact that the psuedopedrine (or whatever it is) is made overseas instead of here. Democrats (of which I am included) spend too much time crying about civil liberties and too little time calling attention to the fact that NOTHING is manufactured here anymore. It's made in China and sold at Traitor-Mart (ahem) I mean Wal-Mart. I think maybe I could live with a little wiretapping if I knew that the phone I was talking on was made by an American who could feed and clothe his or her family as a result. I got into with some guys on another board (Chevy diesel truck page) about Toyota entering NASCAR. They felt that "the enemy" shouldn't be allowed to race in an American racing body. I disagree. Toyota, unlike most American companies, builds cars here! Granted they are assembled with foreign parts, but that guy can go home after putting together Corollas all day to a decent home, eat a decent meal, play with his kids, and get a good night's sleep knowing he's working hard and putting food on the table. Chevy is busy paying some sleazeball ad execs more money than they'd ever DREAM of paying their workers to come up with commercials loaded with Cowboys and American flags.

In short-I think corporate America would love to see us overly concerned with showing ID to buy cold medicine. It distracts us from seeing that our country's heart and soul is being sold to China by THEM.

Hilarious, another dope smoker, your brain is retarded! Actually American manufacturing of products here is still as strong as it used to be. If you look into the manufacturing side there is a problem, but its an obvious problem. To stand in a line all day and spit, fart, or yell at a ball bearing pays $15 an hour, a job anyone working at a Burger King would kill to make $10. Why America is still the manufacturing leader, is because of technology. A Robot can spit on a ball bearing, or yell a curse at it for less then someone thinking they should earn $50 an hour, live in a mansion, and why they are still made here in a competition. This is a total issue that if you want to get into economics about ill be glad too, and be glad to destroy your retarded idealistic view of how things work, and to blame "corporate america." What is corporate america anyway, your view of what a corporation is, or the actual definition, and its actions in the economy? Write me a nice response on how things are bad, and what causes them, and the consequences, not some retarded dribble some 12 year old would say to agree with Barney on TV. Your response will be nice, because you will prove to be a nitwit living in some other reality, so please, go research, and give me a good one i can demolish in one minute of typing. Oh BTW, the civil liberties of democrats, HELLO, civil liberties are what people think they are, no party is about freedom of liberties unless your a Libertarian, and then some are restricted. So go pound that stupidity where it belongs, go rant with retards you know that can be influenced, you wanna rant here, you can, bring some details so i can demolish you.

 

[pinelandpaddler]

Speaking of retarded, your grammar is pretty atrocious, supercilious.



P.S. If you want, I can refer you to some decent sites which might help you learn to engage in civil debate. Maybe a lesson in comma placement is also in order. :eng101:

 

[woodjin]

Super, being condescending doesn't do anybody any good.

 

[Ben Ruset]

My poor forums!!!!

 

[Teegate]

They will survive!

Guy

 

[Boyd]

su·per·cil·ious
Pronunciation: -'si-lE-&s, -'sil-y&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin superciliosus, from supercilium eyebrow, haughtiness, from super- + -cilium eyelid (akin to celare to hide)
: coolly and patronizingly haughty <reacted to their breach of etiquette with a supercilious smile>

What is it with some of the people who have come here recently? I come to this site to exchange cool things about the pine barrens and enjoy the occasional off-topic thread. A few others seem to have a completely different agenda....

 

[Badfish740]

I'm afraid I must echo Ben's sentiments-but I share Guy's resolve. This is too good a forum to be brought down by flame wars. But seriously, superlicious-did I run over your dog and not realize it or something? Seriously...!? My post was meant to call attention to something that I happen to feel strongly about. While I do partially agree that our civil liberties are being trampled, I also feel that there are other problems in this country that are more all emcompassing and harder to solve.

Needless to say I presented my point of view in what I thought was a respectful and reasonable manner and tone. If it didn't come out that way, I apologize, and I really do mean that. To me, message boards are a great resource that can help joe public learn about any number of things from the Pinelands, to Chevy diesel trucks, to running a small farm, building a koi pond, playing bluegrass music, etc... These are just a few of the kinds of message boards I'm involved with, and I regard them as invaluable resources. While on-topic conversation is usually what I'm interested in, I usually like to shoot the breeze on any number of topics in the off-topic forums of this and many other boards as well. Unfortunately, things like this seem to happen all too often in the middle of otherwise substantive and interesting debates and conversations.

Unfortunately, I think that the lack of face to face, eye to eye contact is to blame for all of this. First of all, it is way too easy to misinterpret the tone of a person's statement when it is being read. Relatively few of us are gifted enough to effectively communicate a tone through text alone. Second, however, is the more disconcerting realization. The lack of face to face contact just makes it so much easier to attack someone so viciously for something as innocent as a difference of opinion. I mean honestly superlicious, do you really conduct yourself in this manner in a face to face conversation? I think not. If you did you'd find yourself a pretty lonely person, or one who got punched in the mouth quite a bit. I'm willing to bet that 90% of the "internet toughguys" who advocate such extreme measures as "demolishing" someone else for their opinion do nothing of the sort in realtime face to face conversation. Unfortunately once they sit down in front of a computer and register a login name which renders them totally anonymous they think nothing of being outright belligerent and hateful towards others in order to get a point across.

That being said, I'd like a chance to respond to some pretty vitriolic attacks on my character and views in a public forum populated by people whom I don't know personally but have come to respect and enjoy conversing with about the Pinelands.

Hilarious, another dope smoker, your brain is retarded!

How does anything I mentioned in my post indicate that I use marijuana? I happened to mention how damaging methamphetamine is and that if we need to regulate the ingredients, so be it. Does that sound like the opinion of a drug user?

Actually American manufacturing of products here is still as strong as it used to be.

Where is your evidence for this? I challenge you to walk into a Wal-Mart and find something besides a Carhartt coat or a firearm that is made in the United States. Have you driven through Bethlehem, Pennsylvania or Flint, Michigan lately? How about Trenton, Camden, Paterson, or Newark? There are still manufacturing jobs in the U.S. but nowhere NEAR as many as there were 30-40 years ago.

If you look into the manufacturing side there is a problem, but its an obvious problem. To stand in a line all day and spit, fart, or yell at a ball bearing pays $15 an hour, a job anyone working at a Burger King would kill to make $10. Why America is still the manufacturing leader, is because of technology. A Robot can spit on a ball bearing, or yell a curse at it for less then someone thinking they should earn $50 an hour, live in a mansion, and why they are still made here in a competition. This is a total issue that if you want to get into economics about ill be glad too, and be glad to destroy your retarded idealistic view of how things work, and to blame "corporate america." What is corporate america anyway, your view of what a corporation is, or the actual definition, and its actions in the economy? Write me a nice response on how things are bad, and what causes them, and the consequences, not some retarded dribble some 12 year old would say to agree with Barney on TV.

I really can't follow any of this, what do robots and spitting on ball bearings and farting have to do with anything? How does that relate to Burger King?

Your response will be nice, because you will prove to be a nitwit living in some other reality

I assure you, I am far from a "nitwit living in some other reality." At the moment I'm working two jobs, paying off my student loans, paying taxes, car insurance, health insurance, phone bills, etc... and trying to put together a down payment for a house. I wish my bills weren't real, but trust me they are!

give me a good one i can demolish in one minute of typing.

Why are you so angry?

So go pound that stupidity where it belongs, go rant with retards you know that can be influenced, you wanna rant here, you can, bring some details so i can demolish you.

Would you really speak to someone that way in person? I can honestly say that I wouldn't. I may be much younger than most here, but I was taught to respectfully disagree with people. Contrary to what seems like popular belief, civil debate and discourse IS possible.

In conclusion, I ask you to look at my past posts and attempt to find one instance where I attacked someone with the ferocity and viciousness that you did. I have had my differences of opinion with people on this and other boards, but I conduct myself just as I would if that person was sitting across a table from me. I am confident Guy, Ben, and others will affirm this. According to the board records, you have been a member twice a long as I have, yet you have a post count less than a quarter of mine. I went back and read pretty much every one and concluded that 90% of them were needless attacks that contributed nothing to the forum. All I want to ask is why? What is the purpose?



I suggest you hit the Pic or the Woodshed and have yourself a cold one my friend-I'll even buy you one.

 

[supercilious]

First off you were complaing about China, and all of these magical jobs going overseas, and Walmart is some evil empire, corporate America is bad. This is the same rhetoric i hear everyday, and its nonsense. First off with Bethlehem, they lost out to competition, and not just imports. Why run an old plant, which needs a large labor force, with a large union that would rather have money, then allow the company to make money. New plants were built at the time which used less labor, and produced more steel, so you cant compete. Walmart is some evil being because they sell cheap goods that people can afford. If you dont want to buy some cheap Walmart good, you can find other consumer items in other places, and pay more. Walmart only sells low end consumer products, and alot of people would rather pay $10 for some piece of plastic, then go spend $30 for the same thing made in the USA, or sold at a different store. China itself makes more sense then anything, they have millions of people who are willing to work to make garbage for us. Factories of people making shoes, teddy bears, radios, and whatever else you can think of. You are not going to find an American to go sew shoes all day, if you did, the pay would be minimal so the company makes a profit. People in other nations have much more initiative to do more for less then Americans do. I dont blame Americans for wanting as much as possible for giving the least as possible. You cant go solving trade problems with tariffs, or government bail outs of businesses. Chevy executives are evil because they get paid more, and spend money on tv ads with cowboys, and american flags. Well those tv ads keep Chevy in business, and those executives get paid for a reason, and they are almost always the first to get laid off when labor costs get to high. Go blame whoever you want to blame, corporations, China, the boogeyman, its about competition. Competition now is going global, either Americans compete, or lose. Im sure anyone making shoes in China is glad to have a job, have their own apartment, and have free cash to spend. Im sure whoever is making shoes in America is pissed off because they dont drive a $30,000 car, live in some $400,000 house, and are demanding $25 an hour, but get pissed when the company goes broke, and blames not having everything in the world on someone in China. Atleast Americans have other opportunities, they can go work in a bank, go build machines that factories need, work in broad technology fields, service fields, etc. In China they dont have much besides simple labor manufacturing, so its either making shoes, making shirts, putting together $10 radios, all of the high end jobs in China are not growing. So i dont see why it makes sense to manufacture junk here for jobs, so everyone needs to pay more for this junk, then let people in China do it. Same was with Taiwan, they used to make all of our junk, now they created a good standard of living, and they wont make junk, and its not economical to make it there anymore. Soon with China growing, another nation is going to take all of the low end jobs eventually, and China will be buying junk from them. So you can go blame Tratior-Mart, and play up the working class hero, but thats all nonsense with no basis on anything.