While We Were Sleeping, Very Bad Things Happened
- Thread starter RednekF350
- Start date
It's not about protecting the woods,it's about extorting the public for greenbacks
100%. All of those summonses could have been written before the new map went into effect. The $500 and up fines are for unregistered off road vehicle use. That was already illegal in the entirety of Wharton. They parade that fine structure around like it has some relation to the new map. It does not. If you're caught on one of the closed roads in a street legal vehicle, you are subject to a different fine than the $500 and up one, but they obviously don't want to point that out. The surveys the NJDEP received overwhelmingly favored increased enforcement of the existing laws and opposed closing roads. If they had put forth this enforcement effort much earlier and were willing to compromise on road closures, this whole process could have been so much more productive and satisfied all stakeholders. Instead they kept enforcement low in an attempt to give an appearance that road closures were necessary because their pitiful enforcement attempts just weren't enough to "stop the damage."
I also find it humorous that the photo they show is of three police trucks/SUVs and a police ATV in an area that is probably off limits per the new map. Somehow the Park Police trucks and ATVs must have magical tires that don't damage the delicate sand and gravel of Wharton.
Attachments
When the first MAP was being discussed in 2015 I spoke with the Superintendent and was told that even with the road closures there will be some individuals who still could use the roads. I took that as meaning researchers, law enforcement, biologists, Wharton employees, etc, etc. The way I see it if they can go there so can I. And I still see it the same way.
I have said the same on numerous occasions! If we cant drive the roads the Park officials shouldnt be allowed to neither. It's just another division between the commoner and the elite,of course you know where we stand in that. It's all about control and that all it is. caring about the environment is BS when it comes to the government.
A quote from NJDEP Commissioner Shawn LaTourette, taken from the November 29, 2024 article on NJ.Com as posted here:
...."The survey slashes about 121 miles worth of roads found to range from property boundary lines to hiking trails. In hearings leading up to the new map, NJDEP Commissioner Shawn LaTourette said most of the unauthorized roads were likely formed over time from visitor use."
Most of the unauthorized roads?? How can such a powerful man and lauded attorney offer such a flippant statement unfounded by truth? The new map has closed literally miles of roads in my area that appear on the Vermuele and Cook maps from the late 1800's and the early USGS mappings. These are the same roads that are being closed by the map today. These roads were not formed by "visitor use" but were in fact formed by historic uses such as lumbering and cranberry production.
I have provided 18" x 24" printed maps to a few of my local gun club friends at Wagon Wheel and Clementon and I am sure the F-Bombs are being dropped tonight as they prepare for the 6-Day deer opener on Monday.
After seeing a NJDEP published photo of LaTourette, I surmise that he may not be much of a woodsman and I further surmise that the hair gel may be clouding his thinking.
...."The survey slashes about 121 miles worth of roads found to range from property boundary lines to hiking trails. In hearings leading up to the new map, NJDEP Commissioner Shawn LaTourette said most of the unauthorized roads were likely formed over time from visitor use."
Most of the unauthorized roads?? How can such a powerful man and lauded attorney offer such a flippant statement unfounded by truth? The new map has closed literally miles of roads in my area that appear on the Vermuele and Cook maps from the late 1800's and the early USGS mappings. These are the same roads that are being closed by the map today. These roads were not formed by "visitor use" but were in fact formed by historic uses such as lumbering and cranberry production.
I have provided 18" x 24" printed maps to a few of my local gun club friends at Wagon Wheel and Clementon and I am sure the F-Bombs are being dropped tonight as they prepare for the 6-Day deer opener on Monday.
After seeing a NJDEP published photo of LaTourette, I surmise that he may not be much of a woodsman and I further surmise that the hair gel may be clouding his thinking.
I recently ran into a friend. He was pulled over operating a quad with his young kids. After a long lecture he was let go. As he was let go he was told on the down low to “Just go where we can’t and you won’t have any problem”. I wasn’t there to know exactly what was said but if true, it’s exactly what I fear will happen.
Last edited:
The MAP or what ever they are calling it now does nothing to address real illegal activity - using unregistered/unlicensed/uninsured vehicles has always been prohibited. This MAP is targeted at all of us that have followed the rules
I was successful once again in the beaver and otter permit lottery this year and was I awarded both a beaver and an otter permit. The season opens on the day after Christmas so I did some preliminary trap line scouting in Wharton this afternoon to prepare.
While traveling in my truck and on foot for almost 3 hours I was passed by two groups of off-roaders. The first group consisted of a UTV and three motorcycles traveling on what is now an off-limits road, per THE MAP. I was on foot and down inside a pond edge and they never saw me.
The second group I encountered while driving back home was coming out of a road that was mapped in 1870 by Vermuele that is now off-limits to you and I. They were turning onto the road I was traveling, which is actually open to everyone, per THE MAP. I pulled off onto the left side of the road because there was more room and the leader of group proceeded to wheelie on by and wave to me. The second rider, on a UTV, acknowledged me, slowed, and gave hand signals to the closest followers to back down as he reduced his speed. The rest of the group included three more UTV's, a couple of quads and the rest motorcycles. 9 or 10 vehicles altogether and all pleasantly acknowledged me. Several of the two strokes were burning Bel-Ray two-stroke oil (if you know that smell you know
) and it instantly triggered a lot of good memories for me of the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's. I started out my Pine Barrens riding with street legal, tagged, and insured 400 cc two-stroke Yamaha DT Enduros and eventually graduated to an evil beast 1983 Honda CR-480, untagged and uninsured, from there.
I guess my take-away while writing all of this, and after drinking two glasses of my homemade wine and slugging down an Icarus IPA for an opener, is that enforcement of the new rules will be complicated and nearly impossible in every part of Wharton going forward.
Good night John Boys and Girls.
While traveling in my truck and on foot for almost 3 hours I was passed by two groups of off-roaders. The first group consisted of a UTV and three motorcycles traveling on what is now an off-limits road, per THE MAP. I was on foot and down inside a pond edge and they never saw me.
The second group I encountered while driving back home was coming out of a road that was mapped in 1870 by Vermuele that is now off-limits to you and I. They were turning onto the road I was traveling, which is actually open to everyone, per THE MAP. I pulled off onto the left side of the road because there was more room and the leader of group proceeded to wheelie on by and wave to me. The second rider, on a UTV, acknowledged me, slowed, and gave hand signals to the closest followers to back down as he reduced his speed. The rest of the group included three more UTV's, a couple of quads and the rest motorcycles. 9 or 10 vehicles altogether and all pleasantly acknowledged me. Several of the two strokes were burning Bel-Ray two-stroke oil (if you know that smell you know
) and it instantly triggered a lot of good memories for me of the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's. I started out my Pine Barrens riding with street legal, tagged, and insured 400 cc two-stroke Yamaha DT Enduros and eventually graduated to an evil beast 1983 Honda CR-480, untagged and uninsured, from there.I guess my take-away while writing all of this, and after drinking two glasses of my homemade wine and slugging down an Icarus IPA for an opener, is that enforcement of the new rules will be complicated and nearly impossible in every part of Wharton going forward.
Good night John Boys and Girls.
The NJCF sent me a form letter to mail to the politicians to "praise" this work. I hijacked it and instead said it was a sham that ignored the user survey and put in the PPA-approved roads only. Which is what it is. They are seeing pushback. Keep complaining to the elected.
I see you just crawled out from under your rock Crawdaddy.Maybe we can use you for fish bait today? The smell will definitely attract them.
Moderator Note: Everyone is welcome to express their opinion here, regardless of who might disagree with it. But there will be zero tolerance for trolling or personal attacks. Keep the discussion civil and discuss the issues instead of attacking the person, unless you want this thread to be locked and join the others in the slag heap. Thanks.
There is no need to be so hostile. It's my opinion and not a personal attack. It's also my opinion that instead of driving everywhere people should think about getting out of their vehicles and enjoy the peaceful quiet of the area
This is the one place on the internet I didn't expect to see the anger that's so prevalent in society today...I guess I was wrong
This is the one place on the internet I didn't expect to see the anger that's so prevalent in society today...I guess I was wrong
Last edited:
Not everyone can walk to all places that you and I can.
That statement is fine. Your earlier post was a direct insult to the other members who have posted in this thread. Any reasonable person would be insulted if you called them a "crybaby". That's pretty much the definition of trolling - making a post to anger others and stir up controversy. I'm also a moderator on a huge forum with over a million members and 10,000+ posts a day. Believe me, I know trolling when I see it.
And the same goes for our longtime members here, the reflex action is to return the insult, I get that. But try to resist.
Let's just leave things where they are, call it even and get back to the issues. There are other threads in this forum where people disagree but remain respectful.
I'm sorry you feel that way but I was NOT trolling . I just have a low tolerance for endless complaining. There's nothing productive about.
Maybe this is not the place for me
Maybe this is not the place for me
Mod Note: We're locking this thread for awhile to let everyone cool off. When we unlock it, please stick to the issues. Complaining about people who complain never ends well. Thanks.
[edit]Thread is now unlocked again.
[edit]Thread is now unlocked again.
Last edited: