Real nice Talk Hope Ben sees the nice 4 letter word you put up there and My child does have a learning issue. REAL Class act!
Closed to Mortorized Vehicles
- Thread starter ecampbell
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Those signs will mean nothing to the young/irresponsible folks who tear that area up. I hope it keeps them out but I doubt it. I respect the move and think it was neccesary but I hope it doesn't lead to the destruction of another area around there.....all that land is very sensitive. This unfortunately happens all the time a few incidents lead to everyone getting punished....it will pass over time, lets not panic, fortunately we still have lots of land to roam.
Devilstoy:
Uh - wow. Trying to figure out what you're even talking about?
I'm involved with NJTLC, I volunteer for several organizations, and I have every right to question how things are handled... especially on the end of enforcement. My tax dollars PAY for enforcement and I think the LAST thing NJ needs is volunteer police.
I support the signs that were put up - even if I think the boundaries were broader than necessary.
So why the outburst?
Uh - wow. Trying to figure out what you're even talking about?
I'm involved with NJTLC, I volunteer for several organizations, and I have every right to question how things are handled... especially on the end of enforcement. My tax dollars PAY for enforcement and I think the LAST thing NJ needs is volunteer police.
I support the signs that were put up - even if I think the boundaries were broader than necessary.
So why the outburst?
Guy, I request you remove post 81 and 82. That is in very bad taste and should not be a reflection upon this forum for visitors to see.
I think the Trails guys did the best they could, and will learn from this experience.
I think the Trails guys did the best they could, and will learn from this experience.
I deleted them. Not mad at anybody but yeah, not the impression I want people to get from here.
Anyway, Bob, I think you're right. However I do think that there needs to be more transparency, and (personally) if folks don't feel comfortable with being asked to post signs then don't, because to the entire world it looks like the NJTLC approves of the closure.
Anyway, Bob, I think you're right. However I do think that there needs to be more transparency, and (personally) if folks don't feel comfortable with being asked to post signs then don't, because to the entire world it looks like the NJTLC approves of the closure.
It's a tough thing, being swept along with the tide. But, if you pinned me against the wall and said...."look, we just don't have the people to enforce it right now, but we can put up some temporary signs to restrict access and to make a point that we don't appreciate you playing in the mud in sensitive areas"....then I'd vote for the signs.
i didnt mean to outburst at you , but many people were complaining that something needed to be done and now the same people are still complaining about what has been done , and in no way does me personally or anyone i know associated with njtlc want to act as police , just mearly try to make things better for the area and state doesnt have the amount officials it will take to get done whats needed , im not totally happy about the amount if land closed either but if thats what it takes im all for it and not going to argue with it and im all for it if its going to make things better in the long run , i dont mind the hike in from high crossing to 1/4 mile if i really want to go there that bad , the purpose of the placement of these signs were to set a perimeter , its to hard to segregrate the area inside the lines of where and where you cant be , so the state decided to flat out say hey stay of here all together with your vehicle and there wont be any problems , and anyone caught inside the posted will be ticketed without question ,
i understand that a lot of people wont obey the signs and they will be ripped down , so for the mean time its going to be monitored pretty heavily untill the activity calms down back there , and most people i know that wheel dont care for 1/4 mile its nothing but deep water and quick sand , theres not even real mud there anymore , so anyone worried about people going elsewhere well.... people are already elsewhere doing the same thing and no one has noticed as much as 1/4 mile , seems like all the young kids who dont know any better think that 1/4 mile is the "cool" place to hang out because there 40 year old neighbor talks about it from 15 years ago and they feel important or something when they tell there friends they were hanging out back 1/4 mile
Thats a good analogy Tom.These are our woods highways.I am not advocating be allowed to drive wherever we want,through swamps and meadows.maybe shut down a few dead end roads that go nowhere we should be in vehicles anyway but leave 206 alone so to speak.Whats next?Quaker bridge road?Tuckerton Stage Route?Hawkins Bridge road?Oh thats right,the canoe liveries use that road and paying campoers do to so we have no fear of losing that road,it's a money maker for the state.How Quarter Mile ended up getting ten square miles or better blocked off I do not know?Actually for the most part that area is one big swamp but not the whole area.the north south road I speak of and possibly the spur road southwest toward Lower Forge can be considered through routes though that road is a bit treacherous in all but a dry summer.What with woods cameras and all the surveillance techniques at the governments disposal they can't set up traps out there in the woods and catch a few folks on film?Prosecute em,take their trucks ,word will get around and there goes your out of state yahoos.back where they came from.A fine here and there will not stop it but take their trucks and that will.They take your license for not paying child support why not for tearing up public property?
Al
heres what you cant drive on , everything inside the red , and the only real road you cant drive is the one behind lower forge leading into the camp(far left of the map pic) , the yellow x's are where the new signs were posted
I take it Mines spung road can be driven?The red line says yes but the yellow x may say no??? That road is my bone of contention.
Al
Guys, I am sorry I haven't been on here in a while to see all this. As the Recording Secretary for NJTLC, I feel that I should say something now.
When the New Jersey Trail Lovers Coalition was formed, the idea of disallowing or limiting access to Wharton State Forest as a whole was prevalent. A group of concerned lovers of the forest came together to try to stop this from happening. The group was started by and was predominately members of various Jeep groups and clubs. Quickly members from other user groups jumped on board. Enduros, geocachers, equestrians, hikers, campers, fishermen, hunters, historians, painters, photographers and the list goes on. The idea was to come up with alternate solutions to the total closure or limit of access to the forest. The superintendent of WSF was willing to work with us, utilizing our volunteers to come up with an alternate solution. He has attended our meetings and discussed possibilities, ideas and projects. At this point in time we had already participated in some cleanup projects, including the replacement and painting of the guardrails at Apple Pie Hill.
As the organization formed and grew, G. Russell Juelg, Tom Niegel (president of the Outdoor Club of South Jersey) and I were elected to hold positions in the organization. I am the recording secretary and receive all the new member applications. I cannot begin to tell you the influx of membership applications I have received and the scope of the various user groups that are joining and volunteering for our organization, many from this board.
When the organization was in its beginning stages, I posted on this board, explaining the organization and its goals and invited everyone here to attend the meetings so that they could be a part of it and voice their opinion. And to your credit, some showed up.
That being said, on to the 1/4 Mile. There have been many discussions on this forum about it. Some extremely controversial. Although the consensus that I got from this group was that most were appalled by the destruction there. As I was and still am. It is an extremely sensitive area. Most of you know this much better than I do in regards to exact species and the ecosystem of vernal pools, but there are fauna and flora there that do not breed or grow or live anywhere else in the eastern US. Those species are disappearing from that area. Because of the destruction.
Rob Auermueller, Russ Juelg and I walked the entire, beautiful area one Sunday and I was disgusted by most of what I saw. We marked the area on our GPSrs and checked maps and found the roads that lead into the area. He ahowed us the places that he wanted to put up signs. We discussed and negotiated and came up with a reasonable map. We discussed the restoration of the area. We talked about what it would take to make it back into the thriving ecosystem that it once was.
There was NEVER any motorized vehicles allowed back there. That area was restricted to motor vehicle access for years. The signs were put up and the signs were tore down. Not by us, the responsible users of the forest, but by those who were out for the ride of their lives. Those that wanted to rut the land and tear it up. Maybe you never saw the signs because they were tore down, but there was signage. The "roads" you see back there were created by irresponsible fools, creating roads through a sensitive area for their own enjoyment with disregard for the ecosystem. Now the signs are back, and a group of people that love the area and do not want to see it destroyed further have volunteered to maintain them.
We are by no means "anti-access" as was stated in a previous post. We are very PRO-access. We love our land and love our forest. I enjoy taking leisurely rides through the forest ON ROADS and hiking in areas that are not roads. I have found some gorgeous areas, including and especially the 1/4 mile.
Two things sicken me. The destruction that has gone on in some areas of the forest for one. The other thing that sickens me hasn't happened yet. And it would kill me if it did. And that is the loss of access to the forest as a whole. I would be heartbroken if I could not take a ride through Wharton and visit all my mind clearing places. My life would be different if I could not, at the end of a rough day, take my drive through those woods and clear my head.
I understand the distress I am feeling on this site. I understand the feelings of this being the opening of a can of worms and having the forest closed piece by piece. I can assure you that it is not the intention of the NJTLC to have that happen. If it begins to go in that direction we will fight it with the same passion we are using to prevent (or at least curtail) the destruction going on. The intention of the formation of the NJTLC was to PREVENT losing access. Not promote it.
If you still have questions or concerns, please ask us directly and do not assume. You can visit the forum at http://njtlc.proboards.com, visit the website at http://njtlc.org or email us at njtraillovers@gmail.com.
I value and respect the opinions of just about everyone on this board, you have taught me a lot and are a constant source of information. It is, in part, because of what I have learned here, that has gotten me so involved in, and made me love this land so much.
Just sayin'.....
When the New Jersey Trail Lovers Coalition was formed, the idea of disallowing or limiting access to Wharton State Forest as a whole was prevalent. A group of concerned lovers of the forest came together to try to stop this from happening. The group was started by and was predominately members of various Jeep groups and clubs. Quickly members from other user groups jumped on board. Enduros, geocachers, equestrians, hikers, campers, fishermen, hunters, historians, painters, photographers and the list goes on. The idea was to come up with alternate solutions to the total closure or limit of access to the forest. The superintendent of WSF was willing to work with us, utilizing our volunteers to come up with an alternate solution. He has attended our meetings and discussed possibilities, ideas and projects. At this point in time we had already participated in some cleanup projects, including the replacement and painting of the guardrails at Apple Pie Hill.
As the organization formed and grew, G. Russell Juelg, Tom Niegel (president of the Outdoor Club of South Jersey) and I were elected to hold positions in the organization. I am the recording secretary and receive all the new member applications. I cannot begin to tell you the influx of membership applications I have received and the scope of the various user groups that are joining and volunteering for our organization, many from this board.
When the organization was in its beginning stages, I posted on this board, explaining the organization and its goals and invited everyone here to attend the meetings so that they could be a part of it and voice their opinion. And to your credit, some showed up.
That being said, on to the 1/4 Mile. There have been many discussions on this forum about it. Some extremely controversial. Although the consensus that I got from this group was that most were appalled by the destruction there. As I was and still am. It is an extremely sensitive area. Most of you know this much better than I do in regards to exact species and the ecosystem of vernal pools, but there are fauna and flora there that do not breed or grow or live anywhere else in the eastern US. Those species are disappearing from that area. Because of the destruction.
Rob Auermueller, Russ Juelg and I walked the entire, beautiful area one Sunday and I was disgusted by most of what I saw. We marked the area on our GPSrs and checked maps and found the roads that lead into the area. He ahowed us the places that he wanted to put up signs. We discussed and negotiated and came up with a reasonable map. We discussed the restoration of the area. We talked about what it would take to make it back into the thriving ecosystem that it once was.
There was NEVER any motorized vehicles allowed back there. That area was restricted to motor vehicle access for years. The signs were put up and the signs were tore down. Not by us, the responsible users of the forest, but by those who were out for the ride of their lives. Those that wanted to rut the land and tear it up. Maybe you never saw the signs because they were tore down, but there was signage. The "roads" you see back there were created by irresponsible fools, creating roads through a sensitive area for their own enjoyment with disregard for the ecosystem. Now the signs are back, and a group of people that love the area and do not want to see it destroyed further have volunteered to maintain them.
We are by no means "anti-access" as was stated in a previous post. We are very PRO-access. We love our land and love our forest. I enjoy taking leisurely rides through the forest ON ROADS and hiking in areas that are not roads. I have found some gorgeous areas, including and especially the 1/4 mile.
Two things sicken me. The destruction that has gone on in some areas of the forest for one. The other thing that sickens me hasn't happened yet. And it would kill me if it did. And that is the loss of access to the forest as a whole. I would be heartbroken if I could not take a ride through Wharton and visit all my mind clearing places. My life would be different if I could not, at the end of a rough day, take my drive through those woods and clear my head.
I understand the distress I am feeling on this site. I understand the feelings of this being the opening of a can of worms and having the forest closed piece by piece. I can assure you that it is not the intention of the NJTLC to have that happen. If it begins to go in that direction we will fight it with the same passion we are using to prevent (or at least curtail) the destruction going on. The intention of the formation of the NJTLC was to PREVENT losing access. Not promote it.
If you still have questions or concerns, please ask us directly and do not assume. You can visit the forum at http://njtlc.proboards.com, visit the website at http://njtlc.org or email us at njtraillovers@gmail.com.
I value and respect the opinions of just about everyone on this board, you have taught me a lot and are a constant source of information. It is, in part, because of what I have learned here, that has gotten me so involved in, and made me love this land so much.
Just sayin'.....
My 2 kids worked summer camps for disabled people (kids and adults) for ten years, and my wife was one of the cooks for 20 years. We count many of the campers as freinds. My son took them camping to let them enjoy the woods. Thank you Guy and Ben for deleting those post's.
Greg
To my knowlede yes it can be driven (I think) the yellow is placed at those few mud holes that lead to no where right off the edge of the road there
well then my whining has been stifled.I''m willing to give up a fe basically dead end roads in places that need monster trucks to go anyway and places that are more hip wader friendly then friendly to things with axles I just didn't want to see one of my through routes shut down.Honestly i don't think this will stop anything unless people are hit where it hurts.huge fines or taking their vehicles but if this trails group is interested in protecting sensitive areas I'm all for that but not the wholesale closure of the state forest unless of course full wilderness designation is given to the whole thing and we can camp where we will because then it would be a full days walk just to get to the core of wharton and camping would be a ncessity in order to access many areas.Not saying i haven't camped where I would all along but this would finally legalize it
Al
thanks for finally understanding , it would be great if everyone else could too , i tried to make it clear in my orginal post back on like page 3 that the only roads that are shut down are roads leading into and only to 1/4 mile , wich legally were never allowed to be driven on anyway , and the road leading behind lower forge was always nmv , and i agree that it does need to be monitored by state officials as well , but now there legit posting and warnings up to set a perimeter around the area it makes it easier for park police to justify there actions with tickets to indivudals beyond that borderwell then my whining has been stifled.I''m willing to give up a fe basically dead end roads in places that need monster trucks to go anyway and places that are more hip wader friendly then friendly to things with axles I just didn't want to see one of my through routes shut down.Honestly i don't think this will stop anything unless people are hit where it hurts.huge fines or taking their vehicles but if this trails group is interested in protecting sensitive areas I'm all for that but not the wholesale closure of the state forest unless of course full wilderness designation is given to the whole thing and we can camp where we will because then it would be a full days walk just to get to the core of wharton and camping would be a ncessity in order to access many areas.Not saying i haven't camped where I would all along but this would finally legalize it
Al
Maybe the forest fire service should review it's policies of creating some of these roads. If I'm not mistaken they are the ones that really opened the area to the public by creating the road after or during a fire.
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